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 Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands

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Shanor
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:01 pm

At least in the end, you know the CA won't try to occupy Scotland, lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:10 pm

Sergitov wrote:
If my sources on ireland have it right, The queen elois will have/or has already invited the ca over to aide them...After the sinking of jannies ship yesterday,I don't think for one moment there will be progress to bring them two nations into a peaceful fold, much less humantarian issues.The crimes they have did to innocent blood is intolerable.I am afraid i am done trying to be nice to them clowns.

See what I mean? Assclowns. I love how everyone in England seems to know what I am doing. I've spent the past few days doubled over, leaking out clots of blood the size of golf balls, doing very minimal tasks, but I guess I'm just really busy plotting.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:06 am

Quote :
There's going to be some changes in Scotland, definitely

Good one Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 am

Never know. I'm Queen of Scotland. Evan moved to England. Medicine way is being completed. Maybe the Mayans are right.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:32 am

Vanity.

Definitely my favorite sin. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:37 am

In this game? Oh yeah. It pisses the fifth column off, which is why I do it.

Envy me. Fear me. Hate me. Dance puppets, dance! Twisted Evil

*finds some knitting to do*
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:50 am

Elois wrote:
Envy me. Fear me. Hate me. Dance puppets, dance! Twisted Evil


Hmm, yea. Not seeing anyone do any of those things, sorry. Razz

No one fears anything in Scotland, except the admins. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:27 am

Zukran wrote:
It's not a 'victory' as a Victory would imply they made it, rather than them winning it, the Italians simply lost it by cheating. I mean if they had played by the rules then they would not have been requested to leave(If they do or not is another mater)

What I don't get is simple.

Why does Scotland get special treatment?

My character executes people all the time for no reason. Level 0, 1, 2, 3, whatever. No reason, no RP; just bam in 3 days your dead. If I am feeling up to it, I might even type something within the court proceedings.

That's not cheating. Its perfectly good game play. If you don't think it is, then you cannot separate your character from your real life and are way too attached to your character. Get some help. My character is supposed to be the evil bad guy who enjoys killing people, he is not there to justify or coddle people.

It's not against the rules everywhere else. One time I went to France, 6 years ago; and I was arrested soon as I got there for no reason. No one ever needed a reason to be arrested, executed, blockaded by army, killed by army, kept from traveling....

So, why isn't it allowed in Scotland, but allowed everywhere else?

ALLOWED: I march army into county, take over county, arrest every single citizen of said county, and then execute everyone of them.
NOT ALLOWED: I do the same exact as above, and once people resurrect, I arrest them and execute them again, and again...

ALLOWED: I march army into county, take over county, park army behind the walls and enforce a blockade of all foot traffic within the entire County, locking it down.
NOT ALLOWED: I do all the same as above, but I hack the game and make people unable to hit the travel button. Razz

ALLOWED: I implement 'Martial Law' in Chonnacht, and order everyone level 1 or above to form into armed mobs and retinues; under threat of execution.
NOT ALLOWED: I do all the same as above, and request everyone's log in information so I can check for myself if they are complying.

And clones? Clones get eradicated all the time. Both sides in Scotland used clones. Enough about the clones.

So there was the cheating and abuse from both sides, so exactly what prompted this unprecedented bail out of Scotland's failed militaries? Was it what I really fear, which is massive amounts of player whining and begging for help?

Where the fuck is my help like that? Rolling Eyes
It feels like RK Scotland is an entirely different game from everywhere else, and whoever is the admins pet of the week wins, to be honest.

If I was Mano Nera or Montemayor, and admins did this to me; NNGO would be gone from RK. The rules should be consistent for all. You win, you lose; but changing the rules in the middle of the game? Idk about that.

If Ireland got taken over by France, and admins needed to bail us out; I would be very humbled by it and I probably wouldn't be showing my face in RK anytime after such a colossal military failure.


Sorry to be so blunt to all my friends there, but to see you all celebrating leaves a bad taste in my mouth honestly. This is a pretty big deal that affects the whole game. Now when anto takes over some foreign land, I'll have this precedent to worry about. Spend 100k, hours and hours of time planning and coordinating to win a war; only to lose because people complain about losing. Maybe that's not how it is, but thats the way it looks like to the rest of RK. So, maybe think of that before you guys start your big celebrations... Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:20 am

Not saying I don't see where you coming from, because at the end of the day I do. However I think a fundamental difference between what you have mentioned, and what 'appears' to be going on in Scotland, combined with what their group(not sure what to call them on mass) said in the Babel section, sums up, Scotland was a little bit more than what you have put as above in what is and is not allowed.
And that is that they wished in some way/form wanted to annex Scotland and turn what is an English Speaking Domain and turn it into a Domain where the main language is not English, rather that of French/Italian or so on. Which is by all accounts 'not allowed' whilst taking over 'is allowed' what is not, is the annexation of an area to another language domain.
Why?
Because the fact is if I am English, and I spawned in Scotland, in an area which is now classed as Italian then what is the motive to play, if you do not understand a word of what is spoken, despite you being spawned in an area which is 'designed' for your language. There is a reason when I state i'm English, I spawn in England, there is a reason if I state I speak Italian I spawn in Italy. Whilst there is nothing wrong with going abroad and taking over a state, then deciding to annex it, and manipulate the language is.
You state it is a game, and it is you're right, and what is highly different about RK to alot of other games, is it sticks everyone of any language on the same server, where as in a lot of other games your nationality governs your server, so obviously that is a unique position for RK to be in, and it has both advantages, and dis-advantages.

As you 'quoted' my post in regards to cheating, once again must state, what you seem to assume I class as 'cheating' is actually incorrect. By all means any legitimate IG Action is fine, you RP it or your don't fair enough. Personally I don't see the value in not RPing in a game like this, because honestly apart from the community what is there apart from a few buttons?
However what is cheating is the purpose of spawning people 'into' Scotland when the owners of the accounts are not actually english speaking, as part of the annexation. Rather they have connections to others who traveled there, most likely OOC connections, and then use that to impact the in-game aspect, by creating an account in Scotland, despite them actually being of another language base. That arguably is cheating. If you go to France, and then ask 20 people to make accounts in France to support your cause despite them not speaking the language then again the same issue.
Again that is all based off the policy, of the expanding territories, where they want people in their own national lands, or inside of lands of which the language they speak, and again that's due to them hoping for greater new player retention.

And for your final comment about not showing your face if that situation happened to you, that at the end of the day is how you would take defeat, others would play on, get on, keep moving and rebuild. If that's not your thing fair enough, you need to also remember not everyone moans to the admins, not everyone cries and whines over it.
Fact is it has happened - admins got involved - Fine. Doesn't change the fact folks need to learn from the mistakes, nor does it change the fact folks just need to get on with it. Those who call it victory, those who don't - honestly does not matter, as you're all at the same end result.

Final point, no issue with you being blunt, rather people be honest than sugar coat their opinions with BS just to 'get on with people' or to 'avoid disagreement' Whilst I responded to your points, I am not disagreeing with you in a majority of places, just wanted to make my own point clear, than two or three lines from a quote...
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:28 am

And it is all because Brennos interfered too much from the start. Frets initially got lots of help too: resurrected army, not giving a damn about violations of admin rules, that goes with frets being freed because 150p fine apparently is too big, when people from our side had way bigger fines later and more prison days than allowed (all was ok for Brennos too), army benefiting from prestige of non-existing county was ok too, us trying to hide the good of Glasgow wasnt ok even if all was done many times before and didnt conflict with any written rules, asking to check for multis - ignored... etc.etc.

Brenno's changing the situation as he likes. So yes, I do look quite sceptically at it all: today he punished frets, tomorrow he will give them lands and resources and will punish Galloway instead Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:51 pm

anto_capone wrote:
Elois wrote:
Envy me. Fear me. Hate me. Dance puppets, dance! Twisted Evil


Hmm, yea. Not seeing anyone do any of those things, sorry. Razz

No one fears anything in Scotland, except the admins. Laughing

Razz The amount England and the fifth column talks all paranoid about me is hilarious and that's what I'm talking about.

All I really want to do right now is hangout in tavern and do trades, tbh. Then there is conflict where I see folk not doing stuff and feel the need to step in. But I'll enjoy this Queen title for all the pomposity and how much it annoys people.

And yes, we're celebrating, but more like relieved. No, we don't feel any shame in it. Who knows what the outcome would have been, if not for the clones. Who knows what the outcome would have been in Carlisle, if not for the clones. I really do want to see the abuses dealt with across the board. Losing the war isn't an issue for me, and I'm sure as hell not going to run around Scotland acting like the English, pretending we won.

But yes, there is a sort of in-your-face attitude, partly because these guys have been going around using admin to get what they want, and bragging that admin are on their side, and talking about how they're going to get us eradicated or punished. So yeah, to see them be wrong amuses us.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Zukran wrote:
Not saying I don't see where you coming from, because at the end of the day I do. However I think a fundamental difference between what you have mentioned, and what 'appears' to be going on in Scotland, combined with what their group(not sure what to call them on mass) said in the Babel section, sums up, Scotland was a little bit more than what you have put as above in what is and is not allowed.

First of all, thanks for your post, always nice to hear another's point of view. Please don't take my posting as trying to pick apart yours in any way.
I can agree about Scotland, I just don't know what it is I am agreeing on, if that makes any sense. I really just want to know exact rules in this game for once.

Quote :
And that is that they wished in some way/form wanted to annex Scotland and turn what is an English Speaking Domain and turn it into a Domain where the main language is not English, rather that of French/Italian or so on. Which is by all accounts 'not allowed' whilst taking over 'is allowed' what is not, is the annexation of an area to another language domain.
Why?
Because the fact is if I am English, and I spawned in Scotland, in an area which is now classed as Italian then what is the motive to play, if you do not understand a word of what is spoken, despite you being spawned in an area which is 'designed' for your language. There is a reason when I state i'm English, I spawn in England, there is a reason if I state I speak Italian I spawn in Italy. Whilst there is nothing wrong with going abroad and taking over a state, then deciding to annex it, and manipulate the language is.

Ok, but I see it a bit differently. I don't think its their fault they took over Scotland and don't speak English. I think that is an interface problem. The game itself should deal with it accordingly; either stop having english speaking players spawn there, or when they do, have some kind of warning beforehand.

Quote :
You state it is a game, and it is you're right, and what is highly different about RK to alot of other games, is it sticks everyone of any language on the same server, where as in a lot of other games your nationality governs your server, so obviously that is a unique position for RK to be in, and it has both advantages, and dis-advantages.

Agreed.

Quote :
As you 'quoted' my post in regards to cheating, once again must state, what you seem to assume I class as 'cheating' is actually incorrect. By all means any legitimate IG Action is fine, you RP it or your don't fair enough. Personally I don't see the value in not RPing in a game like this, because honestly apart from the community what is there apart from a few buttons?
However what is cheating is the purpose of spawning people 'into' Scotland when the owners of the accounts are not actually english speaking, as part of the annexation. Rather they have connections to others who traveled there, most likely OOC connections, and then use that to impact the in-game aspect, by creating an account in Scotland, despite them actually being of another language base. That arguably is cheating. If you go to France, and then ask 20 people to make accounts in France to support your cause despite them not speaking the language then again the same issue.
Again that is all based off the policy, of the expanding territories, where they want people in their own national lands, or inside of lands of which the language they speak, and again that's due to them hoping for greater new player retention.

Ok, and if that is the real issue at hand here (is it? It's still not clear to me) then fine, I get it.

But what is the difference from this, and all the clones that spawn in my County? This is a problem with shared connection imo; but it is cheating? Doesn't seem its cheating to me, to be honest. If it was, a lot of people appearing in Ireland are cheaters as well. They sit and spy on us, giving unfair advantage. A guy like me with 1 account can't compete, but guess what? If I wanted to I could make 4 more accounts and 'share' my connection, and do the same thing, and by all intents and purposes it would not be cheating.
It might look, feel, and smell like cheating; but from what I've seen firsthand it's not, because admins don't do anything about it.
I'm not debating whats wrong or whats right, I'm debating what is allowed and what is not.

If they were actually cheating, then they would have been already eradicated.

Quote :
And for your final comment about not showing your face if that situation happened to you, that at the end of the day is how you would take defeat, others would play on, get on, keep moving and rebuild. If that's not your thing fair enough, you need to also remember not everyone moans to the admins, not everyone cries and whines over it.

My character has been defeated many times; but I wouldn't want to show my face after having admins save my ass for my own screw ups. Being defeated is one thing, but having the umpire/referee/admin declare you the winner when you know you are not- well, I would be ashamed of it.

Quote :
Fact is it has happened - admins got involved - Fine. Doesn't change the fact folks need to learn from the mistakes, nor does it change the fact folks just need to get on with it. Those who call it victory, those who don't - honestly does not matter, as you're all at the same end result.

Final point, no issue with you being blunt, rather people be honest than sugar coat their opinions with BS just to 'get on with people' or to 'avoid disagreement' Whilst I responded to your points, I am not disagreeing with you in a majority of places, just wanted to make my own point clear, than two or three lines from a quote...

Yea, it happened, I just want to know exactly why, so it doesn't happen to me is all.

Elois wrote:
Who knows what the outcome would have been, if not for the clones.

Whose clones? Scotlands or the invaders? Both sides used clones, so morally its a wash imo. Hard to feel sorry for any side that cheats.

I never used clones in Carlisle, and no one heard me bitch about it then. Everyone knows the outcome of that. Admins eradicated their clones, after I was already back in Ireland.

Clones are a problem, but really no use talking about it or bitching about it or wondering what if anymore. Shared connection makes the debate a bit pointless these days.

Elois wrote:
But yes, there is a sort of in-your-face attitude, partly because these guys have been going around using admin to get what they want, and bragging that admin are on their side, and talking about how they're going to get us eradicated or punished. So yeah, to see them be wrong amuses us.

It's still a bit childish though, sorry. Be amused all you want, but taunting and rubbing it in and name calling makes you guys look petty is all I'm saying. But hey, maybe that's what you are aiming for? Idk. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:52 pm

Quote :
makes you guys look

Anto, I don't care. Only two pages ago, seemed like nobody would care if Cerzi went right along with the Frets, now I have to care how I look? No.


Quote :
Whose clones? Scotlands or the invaders? Both sides used clones
You keep saying this but out of all the characters on the Scottish side, I only know of two, that were on connection share. If there was a big cloning campaign, nobody told me about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:36 pm

Imagine if every big ol' group that wanted to take over the world got this much abuse. Would anyone even bother with the warfare aspect? We'd have those wee pissy clan/family battles or wars, but nothing that's actually entertaining or something that can gauge a whole kingdom on a higher level.

Has anyone had a look at Galloway? The amount of whining going on there is a joke. When us in Glasgow killed Helmut, and the courts came a'knocking, some of them wanted me to write and complain to the admin. For feck sake, you gambled. You fought and spun the wheel. So, we turned up short, does that mean we ought to go crying to ye auld admin? Feck no.

Now, I can't tell whether or not people are being prosecuted repeatedly in Galloway. If so, that's a problem. But people tend to forget that you can be slung up and hung without so much as a wisp of a complaint, all legal. Just look at Galloway's judge after all. He started looping the bastards, and too right. But at the same time, they have as much right to do some looping of their own if they see fit. They won after all.

Sure, as a character it's braw to see the my opponents get booted. But as a player, it adds only uncertainty. If this was solely a clone/court problem, then that's easily fixed without kicking out a whole race of people. Now, what happens when someone else wants to put on their big, bad shoes on? Pray they're Spanish so we can zap those bastards back home as well, after they've had us up against the wall?

On an IC level, this is a good thing.
On a player level, this is anything but.
And I think we all know which of the two's more important.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:49 pm

Elois wrote:
Quote :
makes you guys look

Anto, I don't care. Only two pages ago, seemed like nobody would care if Cerzi went right along with the Frets, now I have to care how I look? No.

Well, obviously you do care enough to constantly speak your side of it and try to justify it. Or were you explaining the 'in your face attitude' as some sort of general statement? Smile

If you want to lie to yourself, you are welcome to do so. No difference to me. Smile

I'm allowed to say what I think, whether you care or not. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:15 pm

Tam/Spr wrote:
On an IC level, this is a good thing.
On a player level, this is anything but.
And I think we all know which of the two's more important.
Have to agree there.
And whilst I am coming at a different angle to this situation that you Anto, I don't disagree, that the haze cloud behind this decision is quite thick, there was very little specified reasoning behind their original decision, and have taken multiple days alone to even remove the councils. It would honestly be nice for some clarification on the entire situation, but then again this is RK we're talking about, when have there ever been equal rules for everyone, and a set 'guide' which everyone follows. Yes there's the basics, and the obvious, but past that, when we get into confusing territory, such as this situation, then the lines blur, and no one really knows where to stand in the future.
Again, just guess that's just a consequence of playing RK, one day it's A then next day it's B and on Tuesdays it's back to A.

Clarity would be nice, sadly, doubt it will happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:18 pm

I hear ya.

It's not like I'm agreeing or disagreeing with anything done; I just would really like to know the what where why so I can later avoid any issues.

Ah well, is what it is; like you said this is RK we're talking about. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:33 pm

With the amount of whining going on in Galloway, I'm not really surprised the admins caved. Though, at the same time.

People had been screaming that the big bad foreigner was the evil lad. He'h beh bad bubbah. But then, once he storms the keep, takes the castle and sets up shop in the courts, they're suddenly surprised that they're being swung from a tree? I swear, the daft going up their man skirts clearly has some negative, knock on effect for stupidity.

That, or they're sore losers.

Either way. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Have to say, none of this surprises me, happens all over rk all the time.

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:18 pm

The talk is about the admin decisions right ?

Then I would like only one simple thing: one rule set for all players. Good or bad, there always will be people unhappy with it. But damn, how can you play and plan smth when the admins do change their own rules ? I would like stable rules, thats all. Its not about winning or losing. Tbh, thats a thing what did most dissapoint me in this game - its these antics of admins.

Choup>Brennos. And thats coming from me Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:57 pm

WhiteSnow wrote:
The talk is about the admin decisions right ?

Then I would like only one simple thing: one rule set for all players. Good or bad, there always will be people unhappy with it. But damn, how can you play and plan smth when the admins do change their own rules ? I would like stable rules, thats all. Its not about winning or losing. Tbh, thats a thing what did most dissapoint me in this game - its these antics of admins.

Choup>Brennos. And thats coming from me Wink


+1

I just want to know what the rules are.

The one that got me was Wins issues a grant to rob munster, admins don't recall it and does turn on Munster's maintenance. Fury takes grants from Glasgow to keep them out of Fret hands and Admins recall the grants and give Frets free maintenance.

I just don't get it. And I'm not complaining cause I'm on the bad side of both of those. Frankly I guess I'm on the good side of this decision and I have a lot of the same reservations that Anto does.

The only difference I can see is that the clones the frets use were repeatedly being eradicated. So in essence they were just making more after an eradication wave. This to me seems fairly unique and at some point if Erad isn't enough you would have to increase the penalty.

Still all in all, a dangerous precedent, and another example of there just not being one set of rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:04 am

Exactly.

Because I been in this game long enough to know: just because this magic rule change affects my character in a good way this time, does not mean the next rule change won't completely devastate my character.

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:23 am

Just because there's horrible communication and consistency issues, it does not mean that rules haven't been in place all along. The Judge's charter has said for a long time that Judges can execute people for serious or blood crimes, and I am told there are old cases where admins have reverted executions that were completely overboard. I was completely prepared to live with the executions and get on with fighting back, but I hardly find that I am whining to the admins if a rule exists and I make a simple post as requested by an admin and outline how the judge's charter condemns what had been done to me. As such I have my charisma back. It is what it is and I'm not making anything out of it more then that. From a player perspective the idea of people being executed in the courts and losing all charisma on the grounds of "inciting a revolt" (with no evidence, mind you) is entirely ridiculous and I welcome the admins to intervene in any cases of this occurring anywhere. My point is, just because you've experienced one thing, and just because there's been a lack of admin involvement and presence, I'm not going to oppose the admins when they actually enforce the rules they have written in black and white, however infrequently they may do the right thing.

Secondly, this nonsense about the whining in Galloway being the cause of admin intervention, is entirely that, nonsense. Are you trying to suggest that the admins monitor what people say in their lengthy whining on the forums, in every single country? Get real, they don't monitor the forums like that. Secondly, the Scottish were not spamming the FAQ or bothering the admins in any manner. Only a few people were actually speaking to the admins on several occasions. You're right, it's a loophole in the game design that seafaring encourages integration, travel and conquest, but game design works around specific language regions. It is what it is though, and Scotland is an English language region. People were entirely prepared to work the underground movement, despite the cheating that was one way coming from the invaders (because let's be very clear on this, we did not use clones to fight them). That said it was becoming an Italian region. English speaking players were becoming diluted by the Italian concentration, all of whom were not interested in genuinely integrating with the community, and with the vast majority of them not speaking English, or being clones and thus not saying a word anyway, they were a group of people who did not role play. Ultimately that leads to the forums dying because English is the language enforced by design and moderators, for a country which you are directed to by the .com website for a specific reason; the English language.

I don't see it as a particular reason behind Brennos' decision but let's be clear on the clones. They were being used. Lots had been eradicated. The trail had sort of ran out though with the last list submission that was tested by JDW only resulting in a few eradications. Can I say without any doubt whatsoever that the vast majority of these were Italian clones? No, I cannot. It is a fact however that a smaller number of them were active fighting soldiers, and also that some of the more active Italians have a history of cheating, such as Sir Aragorn and the Mano Nera leader, back in Italy. It is also a fact that a large number of the Italians have connection share accounts back in Italy. Can I say without doubt that those are clones? No I cannot, but we do know that connection share is severely abused in this game, that these Italians associate themselves with people like Moss that are 100% confirmed as using connection share to clone (with Moss having Stelle and Monde on her connection share, that is a fact), and that the large number of them doing this is quite suss to say the least. And let's be very clear that the Scottish side was not using clones to fight the war. On the matter of clones alone I am personally satisfied with the admin involvement. It is purely ignorant to say that the admins should stick to punishing individuals and not groups. That was happening for some time. You're talking about a large group of people who've got a history of cheating and who, most importantly, are very strict on orders. People like Pirathouse say jump and everyone jumps. They follow orders. The problem was the group and the group needed to be dealt with. Just because there isn't a black and white ruling on every single possible scenario in the game, this was nevertheless a common sense judgement and is reflected in the terms of service ruling the admin powers.

This was no victory. We know that. It's bloody hard to beat people that cheat mind you. I'm fairly quiet on the forums about it. People just want to get on with the game. And mind you, the taunting and such was always happening. The invaders have always been taunted with Italian words, mostly food words that we all know, not to mention the often repeated joke about when one of their leaders told the Scots to go eat a corn, which of course sounded ridiculous and has no meaning to English speakers, reflecting the poor and non-existent ability of the Italians to speak English (also, you've been mentioning the rules against teleporting in relation to languages spoken, and the way the admins have reacted to the increasing concentration of Italian people in Scotland, is entirely reflective of this approach to game development). I'm happy that the admins have taken action and I don't care if that shows. Good on them for enforcing rules and doing the right thing, regardless of how infrequently that may be the case and how horrible communication has been in the past. I'm glad to see the new ticket FAQ system being implemented, albeit slowly, and I am hopeful that will be another progressive step in improving communication in this game; and as much as I often dislike admin rulings, I do believe that admin communication has improved as of late. Choup was active in an entirely different period of the game, before all of this integration and new system improvements. She hardly said anything, it was rumoured that one of the other admins was replying to the FAQ's instead of her, and her English sucked. I can't recall ever seeing her active on the forums like the newer admins have been either.

And on an entirely different note. Be careful with bonds. The Italians issued some in Galloway, which caused me to have a few words with the developer who made that system yesterday, because of the concern with how that will affect the county. He highlighted the fact that while there are no punishments/problems for counties in default on payments as yet, that is only because they are giving players time to adjust to the bond system, and these problems/punishments/issues will be implemented at some time in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:38 am

Thanks for your poinit of view Fitz Smile

Not sure who you are arguing with, but I do find it a bit concerning how your statement of fact simply lacks any proof to me. No offense, but heavy stuff like this, we all need to hear the admin say what is what.

There are about 80 different versions out there about why this happen.

On this I do disagree:

Quote :
It is purely ignorant to say that the admins should stick to punishing individuals and not groups.

No, it has to be case by case basis. Are you saying if 1 person in SNF does something, the whole group should be blacklisted? Eradicated? Think about it, then all someone needs to do is lie, say they are part of a group, cheat, and then say they were ordered to do so.

I think you should look up the definition of ignorance, perhaps. It's not a matter of knowing or not; its a recognition of rights as individuals, that i should not get blamed for your wrongdoings, and vice versa.

You yourself, have stated many times that the CA are not robbers, for example. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Order to the Italians to leave the English Islands    Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:43 am

On an entirely different note, I would appreciate if someone in Ireland could PM me here a quote of, "The Celtic Sea Doctrine as concerns Scotland", so that I can post it in the Highlands Hall. Thanks in advance.
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