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 Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.

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_Melissa.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:54 pm

are they on this forum??? seems a bit delayed after the above... anyhus it gave me lulz

SEE i even helped meerkat with some tips =)
Quote :
From: {Meerkat}
To: _melissa.
Posted: 15 Feb 2011 18:45
Subject: Removed post Quote message
Dear player of _melissa.,

This is to let you know that your post in the thread 'towns that could be closed to keep all counties' in Cu Chulainn's Crossing was moved to the Moderator area. This is because the pictures were thought to be a way of protesting that I had placed a request in that thread for people to remain civil.

It may be that you did not intend the pictures to be taken in that way (I must say that I liked the facelift one – although actually its size was too large for the forum), but nevertheless they were felt to be inappropriate and so moved.

This isn't a formal warning at all, just a friendly note to ask you to please take care what you post.

Kind regards,

Meerkat


Quote:
Rule 9: Protesting Administration or Censor Actions

Game owner mandate prohibits the use of the forums to protest or criticize any moderation by the censors or any Administrative action taken against players by Forum or Game administration. Constructive critique and discussion of the Game developers' changes or additions to the game is allowed in The Luminarium only.

Notes:

1. Complaints about Administrative or Censor action must be made by private message and follow the Grievance process laid out in Rule 8.
2. Censor identities are not to be discussed for any reason in a thread. If there is an issue relating to censor identity it can be forwarded to a forum administrator by a private message only.
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Corinna
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:32 pm

hi guys

been debating about replying in this thread for a while, and finally decided to

Some of you will know me as Corinna Davidson MacBratney, Resident of Evesham, married to Beaker, former consort of Prince John and Grendall, RP opponent of Malachia, Melora, and Millicent - banned and eradicated several times, generally play within the rules now, but inclined to push in matters of sexuality, language, and suggestiveness - player in RK x 5 years

More of you will know me as Gopher - censor x 4 years, head censor for 3 years, currently retired

there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread - and those of you (cough Edwin/Thog lol) that have had the joy of receiving an explanation letter from me in the past will know that this could be a little prolonged Twisted Evil

misconception 1 - we did not choose the term censor - all of us agreed that we are mods (numerous discussions about it) - Celsius laid down the law that we would be known as censors to avoid confusion with game and forum admins, as well as with player mods of private forums

misconception 2 - we want everyone to do high RP all the time - not a chance - RP has various styles and can be as highflown or as irreverent as you want - and it does not have to be all sunshine and roses either - I love seeing a good exchange of in character insults and animosity ... as long as it stays IC - where it gets complicated is sorting IC from OOC

  • my own personal observation is that many people cannot separate their RL self from their RK self in the way they portray their character - this leads to RP comments being taken as personal injury comments, and generally starts a flurry of mails complaining about so and so is picking on "me" - this has started a chain reaction in a lot of the censors where they read each commnt and try and determine if it is directed at the person behind the character or if it truly is directed at the character - my own reaction, and the one that I have tried to teach to many of the censors is to ask for the complainant to provide quotes and links so that the trail of harrassment (if it exists) can be followed

  • "spam" threads - yes I am the nasty censor that locked the spam thrad in the Highlands Hall and shipped it off to the Lounge - if spam is in character I have no problem with it - that particular thread was more often OOC than IC, and contained no RP - I haven't viewed the thread referred to in the Crossing, but I am willing to bet that it was locked because it was hard to determine if it was IC or OOC based on what was written - or possibly had a bunch of nonperiod references in it

  • criticizing censors - again I have not seen the posts you are talking about Melissa, but I can tell you a couple of things - the post still exists - it is moved to a forum that players cannot view - it is also intact - no posts are deleted by censor action in RK - the only thing that removes threads/posts irretrievably is the autodelete function that Celsius enabled - all of the censors assigned to the area (ie Scotland if the thread was in Scotland) will review the thread and compare the content to the rules thought to have been broken. They will discuss the thread, and then vote on it to see if it contravenes the rules. If the posts are found to be appropriate, they are returned where they came from - if they aren't they remain in the closed archive. If you really want to say something to the censors about their actions, send them a forum mail, and also send it to their direct supervisor - these complaints are taken seriously. There are numerous ways we try to educate censors on appropriate actions, including mentoring them more closely, or in cases where there hasn't been improvement, the censors involved have been worked with in a closed environment or removed from their posts. Likewise if they are found to be using their position to affect others on the forum, or working in collusion with specific players to target other players, or even sharing specific info about cases before the censor council, they are terminated.

  • locks are used indiscriminately on "interesting" threads - having worked closely with Wombat, I can say this is categorically untrue - part of her philosophy though is to use short term locks to cool heated discussions that are spilling over into OOC. Likewise, she was looking forward to transferring to Ireland as a refreshing change from the constant political threads in the Highlands Halls - we had heard good things about Ireland and the RP that exists there - unfortunately, the cloning problem seems to have gotten out of hand - as an aside, clones are not something that can be dealt with on the forums - Celsius got tired of us bringing it to them over and over from the forum side, and have been very clear that we are not to allow discussion of it in any form - they ignore anything that is sent to them on his matter from the forum admins - complaining about clones on the forum does nothing - Choup is the only one authorized to deal with cloning or zombie armies -


misconception 3 - "Zoo" personas were adopted to hide from players - I guess this is a half true - for those of you that remember the affair of the Everlasting Keg, there were some huge repercussions within the censor ranks - the censors involved were harrased in RL as well as in RK over thei involvement in that wonderful fiasco (for those that don't know, several members of the RK commnity set up an "18+" area that was used for rather salicious encounters - most of the characters that were involved ended up with various length bannings, but criminal charges actually were laid by the FBI in 3 instances regarding activities that took place in a private area of the EKG forum between age 35+ females and 12 to 14 year old males - the problems were brought to Celsius' attention when one of the boys (in England) committed suicide and the company was implicated - thus the crackdown on non PG 13 content, and the clear nonallowance of 18+ areas. It was also decided that the censors would don clearly OOC personas to prevent RL stalking and to separate their characters from their censor selves. Critters are not meant to RP but are encouraged to try and not let their presence disrupt a thread - my own method was to burrow up and plant a sign reminding people to keep their discussions in character and to avoid flaming.

misconception 4 - censors are powerhungry and vindictive, carrying out personal vendettas against players, and targetting specific players constantly - sigh where do I even start with this? There are currently 118 censors in England, Scotland, and Ireland. Each censor was nominated after their roleplay, their activity, and their ability to remain impartial and in character were observed over time by the censors that oversee their forums. Supporting quotes and links are provided by the nominating censor. All head censors (15) have an opportunity to comment on the information brought forward, to request clarification, and to voice their opinions based on their experience with the character, and interactions with the person behind the character. Some of the biggest troublemakers in RK are censors, as are many people that you would not even know of. Once someone has accepted the invitation to become a censor, they are asked to choose a Zoo alter ego - one censor is the registar of this information, which is NEVER shared with other censors. This censor has the responsibility of assigning censors to the area they will cover. A censor is never assigned within the country they live in (thus, all of Ireland's censors are from either Scotland or England). New censors are given a head censor to act as mentor, and supported though various training threads. No points or bans are issued without all of the censors in an area being in agreement that an action has clearly broken the rules (ie: all of Scotland's censors have to agree with an action after review and discussion). Head censors are chosen after a similar nomination process and discussion, and provided with mentoring support.

A couple closing comments - I retired from censoring as I could not devote the 2 to 3 hours a day required to complete all of my duties. Some censors put in as little as an hour, but most are volunteering considerable longer stretches of time. Badger and Swallow generally devote at least 3 hours a day, and sometimes as many as 5 or 6. This is the first time in years that I have actually had time to RP my character again.

The checks and balances in the system (changing to the cumulative points system for infractions, reworking the forum rules to make them clearer, group discussions regarding possible infractions, deliberately keeping censors from working in their home countries, the "zoo" personas, head censor support for junior censors, forum admin support and oversight of head censors) have all evolved as a direct result of problems that we have encountered in moderating these boards over the years. NONE of us want to be obtrusive or heavy handed - we just want to RP, and to see good RP interactions happen.
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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:23 pm

Welcome.

I don't have much to say in response to this.

I will say that you cannot know for certain that every censor is unbiased. Like you said, some people cannot separate their character from themselves. The same can be said for their masks. Just because they are screened, does not mean that they are fair-minded people. I know of one censor that was actually removed from council because they used their status to make threats in tavern and was blamed for driving people out of the game. They also had screenshots that belonged to censor council that they leaked for their benefit. There are also people here who were/are censors in at least one of the games

That said, I am at the point where censors really don't matter to me much at all. When I've been godsmodded and stalked through various threads and provided a trail for example, very little was done. Meanwhile, if Edwin posts Ayr CC screenshots that he took with permission when Tosher was Duke and I quote it, I get a ban. When there are people threatening me, threatening my friends, or telling my friends to tell me to watch my back, there is very little that can be done because it is done in private.

So censorship, IMO is absolutely useless. More useless than calling the cops in Downtown Brooklyn.

I prefer to be upfront and I prefer my character to be upfront. Scheming is just one thing I'm not creative enough to do. And it's something that will always cause me problems because I hate players that are OOC scheming assholes. And scheming assholes get away with most of it. And for that, I will always dislike authority.

So, I wish your character goodluck and thanks for stopping by.



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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:34 pm

And I'll add that maybe some start off as fair-minded but I think this game has a way of bringing out the worst in people. The censor I mentioned can work very nicely on forum. And before a select few pissed me off, I was much calmer. Razz
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Corinna
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:13 pm

thanks Elois

I guess my biggest frustration that drove me to say something here after lurking for so long was that both sides weren't represented - some of us did work very hard to correct problems over the past 4 years

and I know that there most censors do try and make the RP better

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Edwin
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:11 pm

And after four years you still have no clue what you're talking about? Rolling Eyes

I'll be honest with you. Since all those forum PM's (or without an apostrophe) you have sent were ooc I will reply to you in the same tone. Don't hide under this rulebook bullshit. What is ooc to you might not be to others. Your censor pals have been banning only the bad guys for over 2 years now, leaving the likes of Amelia untouched despite far more serious rules being broken. And after your ban marathon - you sending me 4 bans within 2 days before they had a chance to start, you just prove my point.

Since all your letters are ooc and I can't ooc'illy ban you from here allow me to make a totally ooc point to you too Smile Because I think you're irl biased bitch Smile You never had the forums in mind, rather than killing it off completely and leading it to a state it is in now (see Highland halls - all dead except for the return of the spam thread). Your two-faced pal Badger was convincing foreign admins to ban me, when saying to me he's helping me out in my appeal. So I see you share the same honest rhetorics Smile

So kindly, go fuck yourself and your honesty Smile It means as much to me as the good of the forums meant to you.

Thank you Smile Now go and report me for censor bashing like you did when I posted this picture in absolute IC:


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Sephrenia
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:55 pm

I was a censor at one point and am close to others who I know were/are - and I only really have one point I really want to make in regards to what you've said Corinna.

It never required an entire consensus in issuing points or bans, unless that changed after I had to leave. It required a majority, but not an entire consensus, so on that point I will admit to being somewhat confused in what you've said.
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_Melissa.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:58 pm

Edwin wrote:
Mr Potato Head, wearing top hat, with forks jabbed into him... Mmmmm
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Corinna
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:27 pm

lol Edwin

do you really have that much of a problem with a different point of view being presented? Shocked

your opinion of me doesn't rock my world .... sorry .... you are far less creative in your abusiveness than a lot of other people I have run into Rolling Eyes

I haven't seen the Highlands Hall for several months (since September), but when I retired there actually were some great RP's going on - the political BS had decreased somewhat, but there were endless discussions going on regarding how to close Towns/Counties - if they are dead now, I would venture to guess that there was a lot of animosity comig out of the proposed changes to the game layout

no point in reporting you for censor bashing, because as far as I know, this isn't RK - you can voice whatever opinions you want in whatever manner you want, and I can do the same ...

I am not sure where you censored, Seph, but the teams that I worked with generally came to consensus, or had further discussion, or forwarded the question to the hc council for their input - no points were issued by my teams without consensus - some other teams may have operated differently

the main point I was trying to make is that it is NEVER one censors decision to issue points or bans

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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:38 pm

OK, I hope I don't offend but Devin and I are arguing here and only you would know the answer. Is that a man or a woman in your avatar? I say woman, he says man.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:52 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:58 pm



My main issue with RK censors is the bs political agenda that goes with it. I been around the block enough times to know that nngo get treated with a lot of bias; enough for me to not care at all about the official RK forums anymore (and I hope the server for it goes kaput, if by my hands the better Smile).

But it is nice to hear an opposing side. Welcome to the forum Corinna.

For now tho, tl;dr

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Corinna
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:14 pm

never offense Elois ... the avvy is me RL - therefore female .. taken in my hot tub about 3 months ago ...

the cropping took out a lot of the female identifiers Twisted Evil



Anto,I never had the pleasure of working with NNGO much when I was censoring ... you guys took off for Spain about the time I became a hc ... but I did hear lots about you through Dug .. then when you came back I wasn't in the same area - they gave me Wiltshire, the political backbiting capital of RK, and then moved me to Scotland .. not much better lol

I will agree that there were a lot of censors that seemed to have a political agenda at one time - when the old guard censors were retired after the EKG affair, we started trying to find ways to be more ... impartial

can't say we succeeded totally, but I know what we did was an improvement in England - some of the archived censor threads are really nasty

glad to be here .. I love to RP, and finally have time to indulge again ...
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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:21 pm

Told, you, Dev! No man is that smooth skinned.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:34 pm

Man the harpoons!
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:41 pm

Elois wrote:
Told, you, Dev! No man is that smooth skinned.

ok now i need to see full face. and hair. sorry Corinna its probably the cropping fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:59 pm



used it on a adult dating/chat site - this was the second pic taken - the original of the avvy isn't online anywhere (Ok edited the pic more lol - this one would be legal in RK Shocked - how about here?)

Edrahil - I am not a tiny girl by any means ... I have been a physique competitor in body builidng competitions for many years .. and yes I have little more extra flesh than I would prefer, but I look a helluva lot better than the average hockey mom/grandma in my circles lol




Last edited by Corinna on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:39 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:20 pm

lmao, Go Corinna! Devin, any doubt remaining? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:28 pm

Angeljoy25 wrote:
lmao, Go Corinna! Devin, any doubt remaining? Very Happy

no but i ment hair and face, didnt need to go that far Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:35 pm

Shocked Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:44 pm

Meeeeeeeooowwwww
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:56 pm

All I have to say is I've played mostly a good guy, I RP well, I don't get overly angry in posts or anything else . . . but two things struck huge nerves with me.

1. Marzy/Nika - Was allowed to constantly harass me without repercussion, whenever I attacked back, I was warned by the Censors "oh she has some IRL issues, you can't treat her like that" but she's allowed to treat everyone else like shit. I've noticed that with a lot of players. Those people (like me) that can stay IC and follow the rules are treated exceedingly harsh while players with OOC issues are treated lightly. No idea why (and I was a Censor for over a year) maybe Censors think players like me will take these warnings and harassment better because we're able to stay IC, it's easier to yell at us then the psychotic bitch that is really the problem . . .

2. As I said I was a Censor for a while, however, the day after I revolted Ayr CC I was stripped of my Censorship (without explanation) I'll even quote Swallow's message:

Quote :
Dear Lance,

I am sorry that you have chosen not to answer my last message. I'm going to take that as a declaration that you are quitting and quitting with contempt.

Swallow

First off, I can see my mailbox, I never received an initial letter from Swallow. Secondly, I mailed her back asking why I was "decommissioned" to which she never responded. The timing is very suspect and it furthers what a lot of people say, that the admins and by extension the censors support the "good" side. I shrugged that off for a long time as it just being bitter old players whining about things . . . but after this random treatment, it reinforced it for me.

In over a year as a censor, I gave only one warning for very blatant sexual behavior. I was very hands off and let my areas do as they pleased as long as it wasn't overly extreme. There is nothing wrong with arguments or differences of opinion and it's not my place to dictate the game. I was very fair and I remember Censor discussions and votes, where I had to abstain a lot because I didn't agree with the treatment other censors were throwing at players.

As someone that has been a Censor, solid RPer, epic spammer, good, evil, smart, and understanding . . . I can't help but side against the Censors and Admins with everything I have witnessed.
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:21 am

Corinna wrote:
lol Edwin

do you really have that much of a problem with a different point of view being presented? Shocked

No. Do you? Rolling Eyes

Quote :


your opinion of me doesn't rock my world .... sorry .... you are far less creative in your abusiveness than a lot of other people I have run into Rolling Eyes

Meh, I thought I'd let your av do the job for me Smile

Quote :

I haven't seen the Highlands Hall for several months (since September), but when I retired there actually were some great RP's going on - the political BS had decreased somewhat, but there were endless discussions going on regarding how to close Towns/Counties - if they are dead now, I would venture to guess that there was a lot of animosity comig out of the proposed changes to the game layout

Wasn't RK about politic BS by chance? Or was it only about clicking - feed your animals?

Quote :

no point in reporting you for censor bashing, because as far as I know, this isn't RK - you can voice whatever opinions you want in whatever manner you want, and I can do the same ...

So what is the point of reporting people to censors? Did it ever change anything? Or maybe it just made people like me worse? Rolling Eyes

Oh and how funny to see everyone here now siding with censors, while few pages back and in other places my above post comes out as a very mild one Smile
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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:16 am

We weren't siding with censors. You missed Gopher flashing her boobs to everyone. We were responding to that. Razz

You've been mean to me IC and nice to me OOC, so I know the difference. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:28 am

wtf hmm am sooo glad to have fell asleep before reset study
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PostSubject: Re: Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.   

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Welcome to Ireland, Wombat. Now go back where you came from.
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