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 That's right, politics

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Roby Lambourne
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PostSubject: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:48 pm

I decided to set up a news and politics thread if that's alright. Somewhere for political controversy and turmoil without filling up the 'how's life treatin' ya thread', but I hope satire and humor will be included largely as well.

For example, Scotland.

And of course fact and information about events that are both current and unknown to other nations. Also doesn't have to be just British or American politics.

I know that not everyone is interested in politics or opinions so now you know if you are interested in politics and political opinions then we can do so separately from those on the NNGO forum who don't.


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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:59 pm

Considering the Scottish referendum vote is 9 days away now, seems an obvious topic to start with. And there is good and bad that I have seen today.

The bad first, which has sufficiently pissed me off already - 'Scottish Independence: Miliband Urges English To Fly Scottish Flag' http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/09/scottish-independence-miliband-flag-gordon-brown_n_5788964.html

Firstly, he's a gromit looking moron anyway who's dad is  polish immigrant who hates the English and embedded that in his sons.

Secondly, the St Andrews flag is nothing at all to do with England! It would be like a Australian embracing the New Zealand flag, it makes no sense because they are two separate identities.  People hardly fly the St George flag in favor of the Union Flag (Which England is the only place you see it out of all the UK nations by the way) so this is a pathetic thing to say, we should be flying the St George flag on that day and hope that this referendum with either result should strengthen English nationality amongst a political elite who force 'British values and identity' down our English throats.

Thirdly, try getting the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish to fly the St George flag, you will get the same reply as you get from me about Miliband's suggestion.

Lastly, Please don't anyone think any of the main British parties represent anything or anyone English when it comes to internal politics, they only represent British Ideals, don't be mistaken in thinking their party leaders are English nationals, they don't associate with England at all.

I personally would want to see a referendum in England to leave the UK after this regardless of how the Scottish vote goes. So whilst Westminister (the British Parliament remember, England isn't allowed it's own government) brown nose Scotland and beg them to stay in rather an impressively pathetic and embarrassing manner, I am happy to see that the people of England are increasingly patriotic about their national identity as English people throwing out the 'we're only British nationals' mentality, for now. So at least some good has come out of it!
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:15 pm

Glad to see this thread, kudos to you for setting up Very Happy

The prevailing feeling where I am is for an independent Yorkshire.  That would be interesting if ultimately impractical.

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Roby Lambourne
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:49 pm

I am someone who wants to support an Independent Yorkshire, but also as you say it is impractical, at the moment.

First England needs to leave the EU.
Then the UK.
Then Yorkshire is more likely to succeed in leaving England, if Cornwall get there way, then so should Yorkshire. I imagine it would work in a similar way that Catalonia wants to leave Spain.

However, sticking with the Scottish independence for now. I just got home from having my tea (the meal not the drink) in the local pub and in the dining room were an English couple, a Scottish couple and a Northern Irish couple.

It sounds like the beginning of a joke, but anyway... though none of us knew each other we were all happy to discuss the latest politics and though most people supported the No vote and only one couple in the room could actually vote in the referendum, there were so many ideals that were the same and immigration was the main one, so far as for one English man to say, 'I heard that there are plans to build a new wall up there after independence', for the Scottish woman to jokily reply 'I am not racist, but I am all for England building a wall if it keeps ethnic minorities from moving up'.

The Scottish woman also said she was on holiday in England due to getting away from Scotland and it's referendum because it was making her feel physically sick with worry that there would be a yes vote win.

It does make me wonder how many people will vote yes to independence due to immigration into the UK and what the Scottish policy will be in the future if it will be stricter or more lacking than it is in the current UK.

I was also thinking on what actually the country is going to be called if Scotland does get independence. It isn't exactly going to be the United Kingdom any more, sure they might have the Queen as their head, but so does Canada and Australia and they aren't referred to as the united kingdom of anything.

It isn't going to be Great Britain because that is the Island shared between England, Scotland and Wales.

So though I imagine to my annoyance people will continue to wrongly refer to the country as it's current name, I would much rather we just be recognized as England, Wales or Northern Ireland respectively. That or 'Lower Great Britain and Northern Ireland', though I still would love it to be called the Former United Kingdom.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:18 pm

I hope that Scotland takes this historical opportunity to free themselves from the empire which has shed so much blood all over the world not least in the British isles. Northern Ireland will hopefully follow and that cruel, bloody, and anachronistic atrocity that is the UK will disappear for ever.

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Roby Lambourne
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:30 pm

Aye the British Empire did shed blood all over the world, and created concentration camps, and delved in global slavery, and wrote lines on maps with a thick pen to dived the conquered Ottoman Empire. And fought two world wars to free the world from fascism and continental imperialism. And spread a globally connected language to all corners of the world which it helped to discover and inhabit, and then positively influenced democracy to previously barbaric societies as well as civilization and education in all continents and provided infrastructure and money to the undeveloped world.  

What the nations did after that was up to them and it just so happened 9/10's of the time they killed each other in civil war and fell right back into their old ways when the Empire left them to self rule with their new found understanding.

Apparently you mustn't realise that Scotland were apart of that Empire and were as much responsible for the good and the bad that came with ruling the world for 200 years just as much as England and Wales and Ireland. They weren't some slave army forced into action under whips held by English, Welsh or Irishmen for the duration. The Scottish politicians through history and modern times have even being responsible for actions committed by the British Empire and the UK and have blood on their hands and money in their pockets just as much as the rest of them.

However the Empire seized to exist in the 1950's and the prestige disappeared with it to turn the UK into a cesspit of anti-social cultures, financial woe and class divide whilst sticking our nose into the affairs of countries that so readily gave up British governance and now expect our help and charity in return for nothing but influx of asylum seekers and job hunters.

The UK was a fantastic and successful entity from all my knowledge and understanding of it, but now it is only good for its history, its past influences and its elite military. Its domestic and foreign politics though have spelled its end, and it is time for independent nations in the British Isles to return to rule themselves. Including England.


- - -

I am pretty sure the world is at the start of WW3 in all but name, and it won't be fought with nuclear weapons like predicted, but with shadow groups in proxy wars fought in the usual suspect zones: Eastern Europe, Middle East and the Pacific. All the similarities are here. It might be official if the international coalition of NATO and the Arab council enacts full force against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, along with the US's new CPGS (Conventional Prompt Global Strike) doctrine and Russia is going to find its self fighting on two fronts at this rate. But I have a conspiracy theory that Russia are probably behind ISIS anyway, but can't prove that other than the advantages it serves them.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:17 pm

I'll say it as an accountant, pride in heritage is a great thing, in my opinion. I fly a WWI German Standard in my study, still, I'm not about to ceded from the US because of it (or many other things). It doesn't make much economic sense for the UK to split up. Social issues aside, you'll feel it in your wallet, and I've never met a person who loved independence more then they liked money in their pocket . . . just saying Razz.

For example, the UK's GDP right now is 2.5 trillion (financial value of all produced goods).

Scotland's is 130 billion

So Scotland makes up 5.2% of the UK economy . . . I don't think that kind of purchasing power is going to get you a ton of say in NATO, the UN, or the EU. So at the price of ethnic pride you lower your position in the world (whether right or wrong). Sounds stupid to me. In addition your education, heath care, and other government programs will cost more since they're spread over less people, and your revenues will be spread over less affluent people then they were before. Your political position will be weakened as well . . . so yeah . . . what does this gain for Scotland?

California, New York, Wisconsin, and Mississippi are as different places as you'll find in the world, but there's a reason no state has tried to leave the union in 153 years Laughing. There is power in numbers and collectivism to an extent. The more the fracture the more you cede world power.

Honestly, I've just seen people trying to invoke emotion reactions - "Braveheart!", "Remember the mistreatment of colonies!". None are rooted in current economic or political sense.

Sources - http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp


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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:32 am

If Scotland successfully leaves UK expect mainland European secession movements to be emboldened. Off the top of my head:

1. Catalonia (best case for secession of any place in the world in my opinion)
2. Basque
3. Brittany
4. Various parts of Italy trying to break off from each other.

It will be interesting for sure. Self governance is nice, but if Scotland remains in the EU for economic reasons, well being ruled from Brussels doesn't seem too different than being ruled from London.

Roby123 wrote:

But I have a conspiracy theory that Russia are probably behind ISIS anyway, but can't prove that other than the advantages it serves them.

Russia doesn't benefit from militarized Islamic radicals (hostile or otherwise, and these certainly are hostile) 500 miles from the North Caucuses where they just finished (mostly) subduing Islamic radicals a few years ago. Why do you think they have backed secular Assad government so strongly?

For reference: Bandar bin Sultain, former disgraced Saudi spy chief and one of key the people responsible for IS (also known as Daash among many other names).

http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/16845
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-02-130813.html
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#

When ISIS failed to win in Syria and in fact spun beyond control of and became hostile to Saudi Arabia, Bandar was sacked.


https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/10970-why-prince-bandar-of-saudi-was-sacked
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:45 am

So Australia just raised its terror alert to 'high' and all I can think of is how our government is going to milk fear to pass bullshit laws.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:24 am

I honestly find the entire independence referendum amusing, the only thing I really care about in it is that if Scotland does go independent that they don't get access to our currency - like no other foreign nation would. The entire basis for independence seems again to be based more on Mel Gibson's historically inaccurate version of William Wallace than cold hearted facts and figures. As Lance said money counts more than anything, because pride doesn't warm houses or fund education for kids.

Statistically speaking Scotland currently get's 10% more from the UK in public spending than it gives in taxes. With that being said the only regions which give more than they take in taxes is London and the South East. It's estimated around each Scot currently get's 1600 pounds more in public spending spent on them than the average English/Welsh/NI individual. So the biggest question for Scotland is where do they find that 10% or 1600 pounds per person to continue funding things like free uni education & free prescriptions. The simple answer would be North Sea oil but that situation is still drawn out and complicated [Like every other part of the referendum]

Much of the campaign is essentially based on the idea that Scotland get's complete control over their country, even though as it stands, they still hold more control than the average Englishman, as Roby mentioned, and even though they actually are financially better off than any other regional group in the current union from staying in the union. Another big factor is the likes of UKIP and the Conservatives who are essentially hated in Scotland, of the 59 UK parliament seats from Scotland I think only 1 is held by the Conservatives. Given the fact they are also currently in government and have implemented taxes which are not highly popular such as on spare bedrooms for the poor, whilst cutting the top rate of income tax is again a big factor used by the Yes Campaign for independence so they can be rid of the right wing conservative agenda [Then again can't really blame them for that].

It'll be very interesting to see what happens as if it creates an independent nation, next years general election would be very interesting, as previously stated there are 59 UK seats in Scotland, 41 of them held by the Labour party, if those seats were to be removed, as would happen in independence then you would essentially leave the remainder of the UK in conservative hands for the foreseeable future, as Labours only hope to challenge for power relies heavily on their Scottish seats.

But who knows, maybe every bloc should go independent and we can all rule our own little countries and pretend that finally 'our views are being represented' even though we all know that the combination of party politics and corporate donations means this is never the case, as the views of the wealthy and powerful always out-weigh that of the citizens.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:47 am

It's not often a Pope agrees with me, but when he does...

A "piecemeal" World War III may have already begun with the current spate of crimes, massacres and destruction, Pope Francis has warned.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:01 am

"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth — rocks!"

Albert Einstein, in an interview with Alfred Werner, Liberal Judaism 16 (April-May 1949)

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:40 pm

Good quote . . . but I doubt it anymore. Among the G-7 and even the G-20 any serious war would lead to mutual annihilation, and the #1 job of politicians is to stay in power. That's the reason North Korea hasn't seriously started a war by now, the heads of state know that petty power is better then no power. I do not believe there will be any major direct wars moving forward among major nations. Wars are  now fought through the internet and in periphery nations, like Syria and Afghanistan, far away from the major sources of powers for the belligerents.

I don't see the red flags of war that were seen before WWI and in hindsight WWII among industrialized nations today, foreshadowing a world war. It’s just not profitable to investors now a days Razz There’s enough interconnected investment and small side wars to profit each state instead of world wars.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:33 pm

I live in a red state. Xenophobia is the order of the day. Here in the desert the locals hate the LGBT community, Mexicans, Muslims, and anything that is different from their own way of life. I am constantly bombarded by this hate and many expect me to reciprocate in a like manner or risk being ostracized by the community. Well, my family hates me because I have gay friends. They hate me because I believe the DREAM Act should come to fruition. They hate me because I don't believe every follower of Islam is a terrorist. They hate me because I respond to their hate with a middle finger and a smile. It's a pain in the ass to be honest but at the same time it gives me material for humorous sarcasm and myself and those friends who have similar attitudes as myself have shared many a laugh at the expense of the Xenos; Xenos being the name I have bestowed upon my fellow desert rats who have nothing but hate to spew.

The Xenos may control my state but there are movements here which are coming to power and soon enough those Xeno fuckers will be out on their asses. Hell, medical marijuana was legalized in this state which is a sign of things to come. More open minded people are coming here from other places and more open minded people are growing up here. Times are changing and I look forward to a more tolerant world in my home state; a more tolerant world as a whole. Arizona may be the center for hate with such laws as SB 1070 and the attempted passing of SB 1062 but soon the yoke of hatred will be thrown away and the Xenos will die out for the most part.

Goodbye Xenos and hello tolerance!
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:32 am

Quote :
Goodbye Xenos and hello tolerance!


+1
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:04 am

Interesting. For over 200 years we've allowed for immigration to the US under rule of law. The About half of the Republicans want cheap labor and to weaken labor unions. The other half of Republicans and their subgroup of Tea Partiers want the border secure and laws to be enforced. The Democrats for the most part want more sympathetic voters (Very few actually guve a crap about humanitarianism). As a result, both Republicans and Democrats look the other way regarding enforcing the rule of law. They are both traitors on tbis issue.

Independents are no better. They have neither platform nor mechanism to impact the power structure so they must be manipulated left or right based on 8 second sound bites and ridiculous labels on bills to make them sound acceptable (e.g., the DREAM Act - LOL). We used to be a country of Democrats and Republicans where we had ideological reasons for our position. Now, with the incessant ploys to convince the middle all is smoke and mirrors and hate and fear. Despite all this we prefer to sit on our couches and computers and bitch and moan about the state of affairs in Washington DC rather than take action to take back the mechanisms of power that worked so well for nearly 200 years. As much as many of you loathe the Tea Party I give them credit for taking political action via usurping the Republican party to get their message across. They have shown that a few elected seats can impact the whole. Until we Americans return to active participation in our democracy in a meaningful way, the current state of affairs will remain the same.

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:57 pm

holas all, how been, i been good, hehe.

if az is so hateful and intolerant then why do we have a gay dennys in phx?? google gay dennys, its only here, wtf. and sb1070 was about the state enforcing federal law, which the feds refuse to do. immigration reform? lol.

my problem with illegals is that my wage has been driven down. add qe and im not too pleased with things. i did some angry math on that, theyve printed enough to give everyone over $10k, even the illegals. yeah i know theyre not actually printing it, but they didnt put any in my bank account. damn fuckers!
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:45 am

America needs more political parties to weed out the crazies and to make attempt to keep some honesty in Washington.

2 parties for 300+ million people is absurd. Bring the Whig party back for all I care. Anything but this dysfunction.

Fhead, everyone perceives arizona as hateful because of the imbecilic laws they've made. Just because it has a 'gay dennys' as you so state in such polite and homophobic manner doesn't whitewash a veritable list of acts of hateful legislation. That's like a racist saying since he has one black friend, it's ok to call black people n****r.

Immigration has not always been so cut and dry either. To imply so shows a cherry picking of historical facts. The naturalization act of 1790, the first legislation for immigration, only gave a path to citizenship to 'free white people'. It wasn't for another 100 years that the list of people qualifying for citizenship became less exclusive.

What gets me is how some people act like things would be different if 'their party' would be in power. Bunch of sheep who don't realize that both parties are more/less two faces of the same thing. Both parties in this country are bought and paid for by interest groups that do not have your best interest at heart.

If people can stop parroting what they hear on talk radio and realize that politics, like life, are very complicated and not so black and white or red and blue- maybe we could get something accomplished for once in this country in a positive manner that hasn't been done since we sent a man to the moon.
What the fuck ever happened to innovation and mutual respect? Democrats are spineless and haughty, Republicans are bigoted and unsophisticated. If I had my way, I would get rid of both parties and start over. I'd rather have 50 parties than only these two useless entities slinging mud at each other and using regular people as meat shields for their agendas.

But hey, we have another meaningless election this year to look forward to. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:14 am

I have personally walked the migrant trails across miles of blistering desert. Anyone who is willing to put themselves through that kind of hell to seek a better life for their families and themselves earned their citizenship, while most of us sit in the lap of luxury and never had to do something so difficult for freedom, comfort, and safety. The biggest argument used against so-called illegal immigration is them taking the jobs of so-called legal residents. I call bullshit on this argument. Most U.S. citizens would never take many of the jobs migrants have. Hell, without the produce pickers, which is the most common job of migrants, the economy, when pertaining to cotton and citrus, would fail because white people are too damn good to do such base work, yes sarcasm but true sarcasm because most white folks, who are the most rabid ones in opposition of the migrant, would never do such work. If it weren't for the Gadsen purchase, I don't give a fuck if I butchered the spelling, Arizona would still be fucking Mexico. It is a part of the culture of Arizona; the chicano and pisca culture!

So there's a gay Dennys, talking about the spot on Stapley and Main in Mesa, right in the middle of Mormanville? I know it and if that's not the place you're talking about then I guess there is more then one gay Denny's. But SB 1062 was an affront to tolerance, thank the gods it didn't pass! SB 1070 was also an affront to tolerance. One of the main aspects of 1070 was to give cops the right to stop a person on the street based on their skin color, that's called profiling and technically it's illegal and luckily, though 1070 did pass, that aspect of the bill was thrown out thanks to a lawsuit brought forward by the ACLU.

I concur with you, Anto, when pertaining to political parties. Dems are too damned spineless and GOPers are too damned xenophobic. We need more parties then this two party bullshit system we have now. What can I say? I'm passionate about this shit. Not because I'm latino or gay; hell, I'm white and straight but I can't stand intolerance toward skin color or sexual preference, that shit pisses me off! I guess one could say I'm intolerant of intolerance.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:48 am

I always forget the exact statistic from when I was studying US politics, but isn't it like 95% of incumbents retain office in America, and that is primarily down to the fact incumbents get a higher proportion of donations and funding for their campaigns. This has steadily got out of control since the 2010 Citizen's United supreme court ruling that essentially allows corporations, unions and other interest groups to spend as much on political campaigns as they wish. So if you figure that out, the number one way to win an election is to spend more than your opponent - and the easiest way to get funding and finance is through the interest groups that can throw millions into your campaign, what happens is essentially legalized bribery. The politician receives donations from the wealthy company and in return the politician will push for legislation favoured by that wealthy company. What this means is that you - the average voter are pushed down the food chain in importance.

After all why listen to all those angry poor people when statistics prove that I simply need to spend more money to earn their votes and the easiest way to get money is from individual millionaires and billionaires.

I agree with Anto in principle that two parties hurts the system. I myself am against 'political parties' in general, because I believe the moment you create an organization the interests of that group become more important than the individuals on the ground - and that shouldn't happen in politics when theoretically it should all be about the individual voters. However I feel that unless you take big money, corporations, unions and so on out of politics it doesn't matter if you have 2 parties or 50 the big businesses will still be able to buy them all out and push their agendas through the ballot boxes and courts rather than what benefits the average indvidual. As long as you have the Kochs and Bloomberg throwing millions into politics nothing will change.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:37 am

And George Soros - LOL

Yes, Term limits would be nice. We have them for the executive branch - should have them for legislative as well.

Anto - a lot of good rhetoric there. I love how you throw in populist ideas that sound good but not sure if serious...for example, you say having more political parties weeds out the crazies! That is hilarious. Have you ever looked at some of the European elections with their 15 parties? Talk about crazies!

And on immigration you're going back to pre-slavery days to make the point? Well, in that case I'd say that Republicans are the party of civil rights by virtue of Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson! What I'm saying here is that we already have a ton of CURRENT, FAIR laws but both parties are willing to break or ignore the law for economic gain. It all comes down to dollars and votes (which, Zukran I agree, is the same thing). We need people to work within both parties to change this. Another party isn't going to spring up and solve anything. It requires people to show up for meetings, get involved, become activists not computer wannabees.

Sorry Anto, not attacking you as much as redirecting back to my post. I feel anytime I as a conservative make a point on here, someone pulls out the usual rhetoric of 1) okay Conservative, put your talk radio talking points away, 2) become more European in your thinking, and 3) here's some populist bs about each person being a human being and to get real. I love it, but it's neither practical or productive.

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:34 pm

There will never be multiple real parties in America. The two with the duopoly are definitely not interested in changing election format away from the winner take all mode (for obvious reasons) currently used.
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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:53 pm

That's fair Roxxane. Let me clarify a little about 'weeding out the crazies'.

I mean in the sense that instead of crazy people hiding out within the Republican and Democrat parties, they would simply have their own party to vote for, or laugh at etc. The Crazy party so to speak.

I know having more parties will not solve everything, but if this is truly a country built upon a representative republic, then we need voters interests to be represented. Instead of only half agreeing with the party you vote for, you can then find a party you mostly agree with. Instead of voting simply to vote against a party, you might actually have a stake and representation.

I also think voting should be mandatory and election day should be a required day off work. Why? Because I just think it's important, and instead of shrugging our shoulders and constantly saying how it all sucks, we'd at least have our opinions counted.

My reference toward slavery era legislation is simply because some laws are simply wrong. The Constitution isn't perfect, is why it has so many amendments. So when you say we've been doing it by rule of law for 200 years, which includes pre-emancipation era laws, I don't see it as a 'good thing' at all.

I'm sick to death of both parties. I would like a reboot, personally. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:15 pm

I hear you...I'm just trying to be practical here. The only party I see forming of any consequence will be a Latino/Mexican party at some point. Otherwise, the Democrats will move left or right and the Republicans will do the same as some party emerges. For example, Democrats moved left to counter the Green Party about 12 years ago or so. The Republicans moved somewhat right re the Tea Party. At the end of the day, they are only influenced by grassroots members within their own organization in order to try to represent what their money people want.

Remember Ross Perot? He had a ton of money and his Reform Party didn't go very far because the Republicans and Democrats both moved in that direction - remember how Bill Clinton even was in favor of welfare reform at some point? (I actually don't, but read about it.)

Anyway, I agree that immigration laws have certainly evolved over the last 200 years or so, but there are a ton of them...I thought this was interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_immigration_laws

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PostSubject: Re: That's right, politics   Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:04 pm

Quote :
I also think voting should be mandatory

People have a right not to vote, low turnout = low legitimacy. Look at Egypt, when they had a real election turnout was very high. After the coup' when Al-Sisi ran against a handpicked opponent turnout was 20%.
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