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 Guild night - yes or no?

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Beth
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PostSubject: Guild night - yes or no?   Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:37 pm

I think we have a great guild full of generous people willing to help each other with gear, advice and questing. But we also have a small guild compared to others in terms of numbers. That means its often hit or miss as to whether we're all around at the same time to do something spontaneously. I'd like to do more runs with guildies - always enjoy them and find them more relaxing as I'm less worried about screwing up around you all.

So, what does everyone think about having a particular evening each week regularly put aside for guild grouping? It could be for a raid with the spare spots pugged out, or just for whatever people need or fancy doing (flagging quests, ingreds farming, favour runs etc)? If it's a raid, just need a few days warning so everyone is off timer.

Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:12 pm

I love the idea Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:40 pm

Sounds great Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:44 am

Great idea, curse me living on the other side of the world

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:04 am

Yes please! Thursday night or anytime Saturday would be good for me as I can stay up later if need be.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:59 pm

I would really dig this idea, I have a trouble just getting on most times, Thursdays and Sundays I think would be the best days for me to try and give this a try
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:25 am

Okay, Thursday has two votes so far.

I'm flexible on days and times - although going beyond 10pm EST may mean I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. Depends on my caffeine intake for the day ^^

Tod, how far ahead are you time zone wise in relation to GMT?

If we can get a timeslot of a couple hours sorted which is then used without the traditional half hour of dancing on the ship, we can probably get a few quests in or a raid or two pretty nicely *grins* Especially if we have an idea of what we want to run.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:10 am

I'd say yes, but being on the west coast I tend to not always be able to do a quest at say 7est... that's 4 here and right in the middle of chores,dinner, life in general Razz

I know Thursday is out for Randy since thats fire practice night... and well ya something like 7est may be hard for him on weekends too...
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:56 am

So when would be good for you ^^

I know I started this with the implication of time in the evening, but it could be any time ... morning, afternoon, weekend, weekdays. Just depends on people's schedules.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:50 pm

Ya!
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:34 am

I am GMT +10.

Thursday night is the best for me as, I work every 2nd weekend and have my kids on the other weekends.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:25 am

Let's try this!

Either tonight (I've got 2 shrouds to run, could be done with the guild, or while waiting for us to decide what to do), on Saturday or on Sunday night (the latter of which would be Todd's Monday)!

This weekend is a great weekend to level up toons as there is a +10% XP bonus until 18th April Smile

I might start working on my lowbie monk or barb, or even roll a Helves Angel if anyone wants to try some power-levelling and do low level quests Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:08 pm

Let's go for Sunday then - then ppl can plan to be off timer for raids ^^

So Sunday night - Guild night? Very Happy

Time? I'll pitch a 1.00m GMT start for three hours?

This would be 2am for me and Zog, 8pm for the east coasters, 5pm start for the west coasters (still not ideal I realise), and Monday morning 11 am start for Tod.

If this is okay, start to say what you'd like to do during that time.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:57 pm

If it's at that time, I'll probably only be around for an hour, or two at most.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:15 am

An hour earlier then?

Meh, perhaps we're just too small a guild dispersed over too different timezones for this kind of thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:21 am

Let's just forget it. I think folk are mainly happy with the status quo of bumping in each other and running stuff if needs/time/level/inclination coincide.

I think though that I may start to poke around for a larger guild and see if I can run an alt with them. You guys are great but I rarely see people around except after midnight my time - and often everyone is doing their own thing due to being at different lvls. I'll keep the three toons I currently have within the guild so will still likely see you all when I'm up late but I'm really feeling the need for a guild where I'm not having to pug with randoms for 95% of the time before midnight. TBH that is more important to me than guild ship amenities.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:49 am

We are still a small guild and that's what I love about it! We're all friends, it's intimate and there's practically no hassle at all. However, I can understand where you are coming from too! I've said time and time again that I'd like to run more within the guild, but there are either too few of us, or people are doing there own thing, etc. When I first started levelling my cleric up, I ran with a bunch of you on a regular basis for about a week, and it was great, and I'd love for us to be able to do that again, if possible!

I Pug about 95% of the time because I enjoy running in groups and for me there is no better group than an all NNGO one Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:20 am

When I started in 09, I always pugged, because I was the only one playing Razz

Would really like to run with the guild, but there aren't many of us and we are all spread out because the only people in our guild are from RK, or related to one of us. We don't have recruitment and probably shouldn't. I mean, if we found someone in ddo who was awesome, and wasn't in a guild already, I am sure the guildies could invite them. We could probably vote on it or something. Is nice to learn the game together tho.. Smile


That said, we have east coast, midwest, west coast north america, australia, UK, french time zones and maybe even more? Idk. I remember we did a couple tempest spines, but we have people who come and go as well; and we gain a few member, lose some and it can get frustrating trying to plan something and not have people show up.

What I am going to do, personally, is lead more groups/raids. I been slacking on it mainly because I am not happy with my main toon's build. But I don't really care anymore, and am sick of waiting for someone else to lead. So for the past few days I been leading all my groups on my monk, even if I have no clue about the quest.

So, expect me to be asking a lot of you to run these quests and raids with me. If we don't fill with entirely guildies, oh well. Their loss. Smile

***

Back to the guild night, I like the idea but it just seems like there will always be someone who might be put out and asked to stay up past 2am or wake up early or something ridiculous, so let's just do it like this how about:

Every Sunday or Saturday we'll run some sort of raid, at least one. Chrono, Shroud, titan, Hound, Reaver or Von. Maybe even a ToD sometime. We'll pick the raid depending on who is around. Even when I TR anto I'll have 2 toons to run all of those with (shover and antonin).

If the clock strikes midnight UK time, no waiting around to see if other people show up. Whoever is leading will just put the lfm up and we'll pug the rest. Hell, I'd be happy to run with just one of you any day. Smile

This way it keeps it loose, but it also keeps us from waiting and waiting and waiting... people won't have to post here that they are coming and then have something come up and have people waiting. If someone is finishing a quest or said they be late or something sure we'll wait for them for a reasonable amount of time and stuff. keep it loose. Smile

Idk, what do you think? Smile


Really not much we can really do. It's taken us months to even have enough members to think about running a guild shroud. But between guildies and friends of guildies I am sure we can fill out raids fast and have a lot of fun doing it. Especially if we fail! jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:51 am

and btw dont feel bad if you want to make an alt to join another guild. i was in another guild once when i first joined but that didnt last long, no one there was helpful so i left and remained guildless for nearly a year before we made the nngo guild in update 5 Smile

there are some of us who run with regular people who aren't in our guild, some who have an alt in another guild as well.

just have fun, don't let it frustrate you please Sad

if there is anything you'd like me to do just let me know

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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:02 am

I'm happy to run a quest if I know it too!
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:27 pm

Perhaps you guys might consider, instead of it always being raids, having more guild runs with just quests that require fewer people. A couple of reasons to do that, number one obviously being that trying to get absolutely everyone in no longer becomes essential.

I'm going to address an issue that has been an issue for quite a long time and is affecting the guild runs as well. I might get slammed for it, but my intention is simply to be open-ish about it, since I'm not really the kind of person that likes to be less than forthright. Perhaps by bringing it up it will prompt a bit of soul-searching on the part of some and maybe even ease some tensions. At the very least, awareness can't hurt.

I stopped doing guild runs after the Tempest/Chrono one we did months ago. I know from a couple others that they did the same. I also am loathe to join a guild run of any sort unless I know who will be in it. My reasons? There are one or two people in the guild that are omnipresent in these guild runs that utterly ruin it for me. I won't speak for others except to say that they have told me the same; anything else they have to say they can post themselves Razz Since that time, I have made a vow to myself that I will NOT run in a group ever with the admittedly very few people that make it miserable for me. This is a game, and it is where I come to relax. Unfortunately, it also means that I don't get to participate in as much as I'd like. That's my choice and I can own it. However, I am not the only person that feels this way, and I am seeing more and more negative stuff happening with the guild, so I'm prompted to speak.

The reasons I don't want to run with certain people? Frankly, it is an attitude on their parts of overwhelming selfishness and self-promotion, often combined with snotty comments to the others in order to bolster themselves. I find that unacceptable behavior, and as it is a behavior I already am forced to put up with from occasional people IRL, I really have no desire to stick myself with it for a few hours in my free time. The vast majority of the guild is generous and supportive, and I love almost all of you to pieces. No one in any group can get along with everyone either, and I understand and respect that. But this isn't just a matter of a personality conflict; this is behavior that frustrates and undermines the functioning of a group.

Stemming from this issue, there have been two reactions. Some of us have simply drifted off, refusing to join groups with the one or two we will not run with, and left it at that. I won't pretend that action - the course I myself chose - isn't detrimental to the group either, but honestly, I'm not gonna spend time with people that utterly piss me off, so eh. The other reaction has troubled me quite a bit, though. There are several that continue to run quests and raids with the one or two that are an issue, and yet they then complain frequently about those people behind their backs. I think that sets a really bad tone in general for the guild. Either you enjoy running with a person and do it, or you don't and don't. It's one thing to vent occasionally as well, but when it becomes a consistent thing, it's dishonest. I may vent at times (and I'm sure some have done the same about me Wink ), but I am very uncomfortable with a sustained secret conversation happening behind someone's back.

What do I suggest as a solution? Good question. I'd say the following:

1. A guild is a guild for a reason. That reason is not to supply you with every little mat, funk, weapon, and whatever for free whenever you ask when you never offer one shred of reciprocal generosity. Nothing, and I mean nothing, pisses me off like seeing someone brag about how much money s/he is making on this or that item, a person that frequently has benefited from the generosity of others, then utterly refuse and even be bitchy about helping out those that helped him/her. If you don't want to help out people in the guild, hey, that's totally your choice. But then don't even THINK of accepting help from anyone else. It's dishonest, selfish, and frankly reprehensible. More than anything I think this particular behavior is what turned us off. When I started in this guild, many people volunteered all kinds of things for me, and I appreciated and still appreciate their generosity and time. I myself have given quite a bit and still continue to do so for those that act in the same spirit. I gave generously a few times to a particular person, however, and I never ever will again, because it was not even met with so much as a thank you. Grow up - I'm sure your parents raised you better than that.

2. Don't insult/criticize/blame everyone else for stuff during a quest or a raid. There is such a thing as kind constructive criticism, and I have gotten a lot out of that in my time in DDO. I appreciate it when it is meant kindly and helpfully, and it is always obvious when it is. I do not appreciate having to hear random comments on my imagined shortcomings tossed at me for 3 hours. Next time it happens, don't be shocked when I tell you to shut the fuck up. Now, if you want to have a nice discussion about how my HP is still kinda low, and let's talk about how to raise it, and oh you still need draconic vitality? let's get that, and also when you're a rogue you really have to be able to jump in and out of the melee to lose aggro and watch your health bar, and also you should be bringing a lot of heal pots so you aren't a mana sponge, lots don't know that but you can get them cheaper from the guild vendor in house K....hey, that's cool, it's how I learned a lot of this stuff, and I certainly don't awnt to be a burden on the group. Also, if you are the healer, and everyone keeps dying, it's probably your fault. Stop blaming the melee for fighting just barely out of range of your blasts (where, incidentally, pretty much everyone else is too), and move your ass over. Conversely, if you zerg and die, it's your fault, and stop blaming everyone else. Always ironic when that all comes from the same player. Jesus.

3. For all that is holy, stop bragging. Seriously. When ever word out of your mouth is how great this thing is that you got, and how you were so uber in this one quest, we want to hit you. It's one thing to be excited about something; it's quite another to never ever ever shut the hell up about it or be happy for someone else without constantly inserting your own self-promotion. I do understand some gamers struggle with social skills, but I'm already raising two children and don't need to train more.

4. Please try to understand the concept of "helping others." By definition, "helping others" does not, in fact, involve you getting something you want. It CAN, but it doesn't have to, and it is certainly not the primary concern. When I was running for a gazillion favor, several people volunteered to help me run through stuff to get it. Sometimes they got favor or end rewards they wanted, sometimes they didn't, and they didn't care. And that is why if any of them ever needed anything at all, I would run through a mummy gauntlet to help them get it, and you all know how I feel about mummies. Do not, I repeat, do NOT inform people that you will help them, but only if they do this or that because you need it and bail as soon as you get what you want. That is not helpful. That is being a self-centered twat.

5. I guarantee you that the amount of money you can make in DDO is less important than the people you play with. If you disagree, that's probably more telling than anything that you are the problem.

In writing all of this, it strikes me that the basic rule is this: It's not all about you all the time. A guild is a group of people that are all supposed to support each other. It is not a tool for a person to use to advance as fast as they can, and screw everyone else. I sincerely doubt that the one or two people that are the issue are even aware of the vast amount of animosity they have incurred, or the reputation they are getting with more and more people in DDO, even outside our guild.

I'm willing to set aside my annoyance and try running with the guild more, in the hopes that a few people can be slapped into some sense by my pointing these things out. More likely it will incur the wrath of those people, but oh well. Those that know me know that I don't really bother with or enjoy BS and am a straightforward person. I don't enjoy high drama or mean gossip. My purpose in this is simply the hope that the guild can be, for many of us, what it used to be - a place where we played with people we enjoyed being with, without stress or crap. And if you read this all, you deserve a medal.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:47 pm

I love you Grace Laughing and Randy said he want's his medal Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:53 pm

Grace, may be you should address this directly with the person or persons in question. Or ask someone else to have a word with them regarding their behaviour. If someone's behaviour in groups is so extreme that it's put you off playing the game, then something is wrong, for sure. Appreciated that you felt the need for a rant. I wasn't aware of it being an issue for the guild as I'm rarely privy to those sort of private conversations.

Anto - the Sat/Sun night thing works for me. Keeping it loose is best yeah as we're just too scattered to come up with times that will fit with all. And yeah I'll go ahead with the alt for a different guild for when I play during the day. Cheers!
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:37 pm

ok, now that I read back up the thread a bit, I'll post..

Am I interested in guild runs? yes, but don't bent out of shape because I haven't posted a yes I want to, can or whatever. I really don't post on forums all that much anymore

I can understand Graces frustration, and have felt it myself. Mostly due to the fact that I am the type to help people...it's what I do. And while I never expect anything for what I do per say...I do hope that when I say I need help those people will in turn say ya no problem, you help me all the time. I've given away more green steel mats then I can count, motes, recipes, dragon shards, helped flag, do quests that someone needs something from all to help. And yes it does bug me to no end that I give that stuff, and then see people in the guild say well I'm selling this for X or that is worth this amount... yes, it is your choice on how to play and its fine. But it also makes me realize that my choice on how I play is abused and taken for granted... need a fungus or a twig, ask Bell, she'll give it to you... then when you pull a sought after mat you can sell it on the AH.

I am the main one who has alts in another guild. At first it was to help my friends reach 20,but as I've gotten frustrated with things... it's an escape...which breaks my heart that I need it.I love the guys I run with for one main reason. They will do for me what I do for them.

When I've mentioned I was grinding 3000 kills in orchard, hell even counting them down... not a single person in this guild offered to help. Yes, Anto you said sorry after you found out I was done.. but there were a ton of people on during that time...not a word or even a congrats after I did it.

I wanted those vampiric stone dust hand wraps for Faye for two days my friends helped me farm those quests so I could get what I needed to make them. They really didn't get much out of it... the ones who got what I needed handed it over with the comment "you've done it for us, glad we could help"

I don't play ddo to be some uber elite know it all. I don't care about epic this, that or the other thing. And again, you play how you play...but lately, there has been a lot of, you need to fix your toon, you're gimp, in our guild chat, along with bragging... ya, I know starting to echo Grace huh

We all do awesome things... I healed amarath quests at lvl 16, have never once wiped on healing sos with the most deaths being 2, I have pulled more lds in the last two months then most people see in half a year, Auro has backup healed shrouds saving then from a wipe, my raid groups fill faster then you can imagine because people love running with me and I actually spend a great deal of time answering tells saying no sorry on timer. And I could go on...but hopefully you get the picture, we all do great things, there's really no need to continually brag about it

My proudest ddo moment was that shroud run that Dee Anto and Jill were in with me...harry slaughtered the group and they pulled off the most awesome recovery you would ever see. I can't even remember if we posted it in the post something thread

I want things to return to that...where it was for the fun,and help of friends and not what it seems to be becoming

anyhow, guess that was my lil rant... Anto ya know I love ya, and I know you'll worry...but don't. I'm not going anywhere. Just thought maybe with the comments above, it was time for me to put my big girl panties on and say things weren't sitting right instead of just being quiet.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild night - yes or no?   Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:16 pm

I'll make Randy a medal, no worries Razz

Beth, I think you're missing the point a bit. This has become something that affects the entire guild in one way or another, and it needs to be addressed with the whole guild. In part, I wanted to bring it out into the open because it has been talked about with so many people behind the scenes, but no one felt comfortable being the one to first openly voice the frustration. So I broke the ice. Now it's in the open and maybe we can all consciously make decisions and choices to bring the guild back to being a supportive guild instead of a selfish bragfest. It's pretty shocking how one or two people can actually erode the fabric of a group.
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Guild night - yes or no?
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