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 Boot people?

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:12 am

Some people have not logged in over 8 months, is fine. Just wondering what you guys think. I have seen it happen on occasion where someone hasn't logged in for months and months, and logs in for 5 mins, then are logged off again for months.

I don't like the idea of booting anyone, but we are taking a huge renown hit for the inactives.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown#How_Guilds_Lose_Renown

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Dee_Snider
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:22 am

Here is the list of folks who haven't logged in for 2 months or more.

No offense intended, but PLEASE DO NOT LOG BACK IN UNLESS YOU INTEND TO PLAY REGULARLY (you will hurt our guild renown if you just log in for 5 minutes and then leave for another 2 months).





We have a core group of committed players who are doing a great job farming the guild renown towards our new ship and amenities.

As the guild renown gets higher and higher and we level up, it becomes increasingly difficult to increase renown (especially with a bunch of inactive players/accounts).

I say we boot those who haven't logged in in at least 2 months unless they express interest here within the next few days AND start playing again regularly.
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Blainwolfe
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:59 am

well, one of those is mine, lyyrrianna or something like that. I made her when I was VIP in order to run with some other low level newcomers but never really use her (especially since I don't have enough character slots for her to be active). So I guess it'd be ok to boot her, but it wouldn't change our account size. I'm not sure if that would hurt the guild by kicking her but not my others. As for some of them, 3 months is a long time unless you have a really good reason for leaving (such as when I go to navy OCS for 3 months probably around September).

I think we could boot a few and it wouldn't hurt anything, some of those at the bottom of that list are probably long forgotten and I certainly haven't seen them on since I began playing. Remember, we can always let them back into the guild if they decide to start actively playing again. Open invite back if they want to participate, and they're always welcome to run with us even if they only come back for a day (which they can still run with us when not in guild).
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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:46 am

We might as well leave anyone who has alts in the guild they dont use, as it goes by accounts not characters. Meaning that if you have more than one toon in the guild, all of them count as one account.

2 months might be a bit of a harsh start, maybe we start at those who been inactive 6 months or more?


Some people have even said they won't be coming back to DDO.

I hate to boot anyone, but with 400,000+ renown just to get the next level, and like 50 million total renown to 100; it just seems it might make things easier on ourselves.

Up to you guys tho, won't do anything unless we can all agree on it. Smile

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ArcaneJill
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:02 am

We'll take a hit for a couple weeks from the kicked out accounts.. in the long run would probably be worth it tho. I'd say leave Zak and Mage's accounts though because I know they want to play, just don't have the computer power to do so right now.

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Tod_Whitesnow
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:37 am

Well I am for the 6 month mark.

I do know Sel intends to return with Mil

Tod

Congrats on the Navy as well Jaay (finally a recuiter did thier job)
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Dee_Snider
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:33 am

Well now's the time to speak up if you have a toon on that list.

I was hesitant to post the list but I knew some of those toons are from active accounts.

I'll support whatever the group decides.

Just felt it was useful to show the actual data so that we can make informed decisions regarding inactive members.
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Telcara
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:41 am

Gurthaur and Vandrim are Edrahil's. I used to run with him but he got bored, quite safe to kick I'd say.

Valge isn't on the list but you can kick her, I don't intend to come back. Don't recall having any other character.
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Bellz
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:50 am

Callanrk and Screech are Randys, and he's been playing his bard lately.

I'm sort of on the fence about this... I always thought it was more about being a "family" then renown, so in that sense would be a crappy thing to start kicking people. But on the other hand, I do understand that having a big ship and all is important to some and having someone log in once in 8 months then vanishing again is kinda a crap move on their part too.

I know if they delete their toon from the opening page without logging it in, the guild won't lose renown. Maybe it would be possible to talk to the people and explain that?
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Dee_Snider
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:51 pm

Well, a "family" implies that they show up for dinner or mow the lawn occasionally. Very Happy

And we weren't talking about people deleting their toons - just removing them from the guild for now.

But yes, this is about renown, and we're getting to a point where it is increasingly harder to level our ship up.

If people who haven't logged in for months were removed from the guild and then wanted to come back, we could just re-invite them.
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Likaios
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:11 pm

Issue an invite when they're booted for any that we're not quite sure about, as Anto used to do when I first joined? I'm totally open to whatever everyone else decides on this. Given my generally anti-social nature, I doubt that comes as a surprise. ^^ Boot or not, I'll go with the majority.

Also, Bangit is Miha's alt.
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Bellz
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:17 pm

Dee_Snider wrote:
Well, a "family" implies that they show up for dinner or mow the lawn occasionally. Very Happy

And we weren't talking about people deleting their toons - just removing them from the guild for now.

But yes, this is about renown, and we're getting to a point where it is increasingly harder to level our ship up.

If people who haven't logged in for months were removed from the guild and then wanted to come back, we could just re-invite them.

I attempt to ignore mine at the best of times Dee... but still know that if I'm ever out in Alberta I have place to sleep Wink

I'm not overly fussy ... heck the only thing i really use a ship for is the navigator

I only mentioned the deleting because someone mentioned that people wouldn't be coming back at all
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Toasti Jen
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:46 pm

My toon is Detonanda (I have a few others, guess they didn't get added to NNGO). You can delete her from the guild. I am not sure when I will come back to play regularly. If I find that I am playing regularly, I will request an invite to be let back in. No hard feelings!


Mildly off topic-- at what point does DDO delete toons? I def don't want her deleted from the game.
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Tod_Whitesnow
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:27 pm

I dont think they do Toast

Hope you do return, Bella needs this family to be as anoying as her real one.

Tod
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Dee_Snider
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:03 pm

I vote to boot those 4 months dormant and older, if (and only if) it helps to increase guild renown.

RK eradicates you after 90 days when in retreat - seems like a good benchmark for the guild.

Besides, were not eradicating toons, just removing them from the guild so we can earn renown faster - they can always ask to come back if they decide to return to the game.

I'll be selfish and say that I'd really like some +2 shrines without having to pay for them with RL money (or wait for months until we hit level 62).

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:21 pm

Ok, but lets make a list of all the names and post it here so they can be re-added if/when they come back.

I usually would send them a mailed guild invite, but the mail deletes after 3 weeks so many of them dont get the mail anyway.

Would rather have a list I can print out, if need be. Smile

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Beth
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:26 pm

Are they increasing our renown decay? I thought they didnt affect it if they are dormant for over one month as they no longer are counted in the calculation for guild size.

I suppose what needs to be balanced is the cost in terms of renown decay for the two week penalty after being booted when it factors into decay by increasing the guild size, versus if they decide to pop up briefly and then go dormant again, which means they contribute to the decay for a month.

I guess it does make sense to boot now and just be done with the chance that they may log back in again for a brief visit, rather than staying to contribute to building renown for a period of time.
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Likaios
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:23 pm

I might be wrong here, but my understanding of decay is that the accounts continue to count against us for decay as long as they are members of the guild who have not logged in for a month or whatever the inactive period is. Booted accounts don't count as inactive, but they do contribute to guild size for two weeks after, so basically they affect our rate of renown increase by making it slightly lower than it would be with a smaller guild size bonus, but not as much as it hurts us to have the same guild size with inactives on the roster.

*Facepalms.* Did that make sense to anyone else? Or does it just sound like Mwa-wah-wa-wa-mwa-wa-wah..... ?
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Tod_Whitesnow
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:32 pm

Mwa-wa-wa-mwa-wa- wah -wa -waoh-wa -wa -wa

But I am not the smartest man either Very Happy
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Beth
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:39 pm

I'm going by the info on the social panel for guilds. When you mouse over the shield it says:

"Modified account size is used in determining the amount of small/medium guild renown bonus and renown decay for your guild if any."

Our current modified account size is 19: (42 active accounts - 23 inactive accounts + 0 recent departures)

The inactive accounts are those which are one month or longer inactive, so they do not contribute to the decay. If they are booted, they count as a recent departure for 14 days and so increase the modified account size for two weeks. If they aren't booted and remain inactive forever, they don't affect decay or our renown bonus. If they log on for a day to be social/curious and then bugger off again for another 3 months, they lessen our bonus and increase the decay for the month it takes for them to return to inactive status.

Anyhoo, screen shot of the list of inactives who hit the 4 months and beyond if the booting goes ahead. A few of these won't count towards recent departures as they have alts under the 4 month benchmark and it goes by the account, rather than individual toons.

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:03 pm

With 19 active accounts, we lose over 4000 renown per day from decay.

The problem arises mainly with those who log in just to visit once every few months.

Say someone does today, and we go from 19 actives to 20. We are level 55 right now.

1: We lose 10% gain on all incoming renown. (19 actives = 115.7% gain on renown, 20 actives drops it to 105.8%)
2: We pay 149 in renown decay for that person for the next 30 days. This number jumps up dramatically as we level (at level 50 we would only have lost 93 per day, but at level 65 we lose 384 renown per day)

Now that doesnt sound all bad, 149 renown per day for 30 days = 4470. A couple legendary victories.

The problem arises (and we had this happen recently) is when 5 or 6 people log in and do the same thing. Then you are talking over 20k renown.


Still, I see it both ways. What happens when people log in to visit, and find out they are not in the guild? Do we invite them back in and then boot them back out 4 months later? It seems circular.

So basic points:

1: booting people will cripple our renown gain for 2 weeks, unless we do it a few accounts at a time.
2: booting people will not really increase our gained renown, unless the account booted has been 'problematic' for guild renown.
3: a 'problematic' account is one in which someone who contributes to decay but does not or is unable to off set it; typically someone who logs in for a few mins every 30 days.
4: booting people will make us lose less decay when people log in to visit once every few months or 30 days.
5: some people have made it clear they will not return, and probably should be booted.
6: some people have stated one day they will return but cannot at this moment.

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Dee_Snider
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:01 am

Thanks for the explanation - you definitely have thought about it more than I have.

I'll rest and not say anymore about it. Very Happy
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Bellz
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:10 am

if it doesn't affect the renown decay for older ones.. maybe keep them?

I agree with booting ones who aren't coming back. I know Aleron isn't, but Donnor is thinking about coming back when he gets a computer.

Is there a way of figuring out who's on that list and asking them if they are coming back? If they say no, boot them...it may drop the level down and the small guild rewards will offset any decay we get
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Beth
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:33 pm

anto_capone wrote:
What happens when people log in to visit, and find out they are not in the guild? Do we invite them back in and then boot them back out 4 months later? It seems circular.


We ask them nicely if its a casual visit or if they're thinking of playing the game for a while? If it's the former and they just fancy running their alt around for a few hours, they can still get an invite to board the ship (rather than a guild invite) and group up with folk to run a few quests or to just hang out and chat. They get to be our special guest for the evening. They're still getting their bed for the night ^^ If it's the latter, we say hurrah and guild invite them back in.

I think most would be understanding if they know that occasional drop-in every couple months hurts the guilds progress.

I'd agree that starting to trim some of the fat would be prudent, just in case they pop up and then disappear. And doing so slowly so that we can keep up some progress and aren't just treading water. Looking at the list, Magogh and Barnstormer should go. Those players prefer other games and I'm fairly certain won't be logging in again. I don't know who the other players are in RK really so just picking up the names I know.
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Bellz
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PostSubject: Re: Boot people?   Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:07 pm

I agree with Beth, that sounds like the best solution =)
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