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 Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft

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LadyJazzy
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PostSubject: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:32 pm

Decided to go ahead and get this thread started. Remember its all OOC for players. You may of course make an IG/IC comment from your character.

We can use this thread to discuss the issues and any RP and Admin/Censor issues.

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Grace
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:22 pm

As one of the people that has been tracking the clone situation for a long time, and also one of the people that was initially skeptical as to the extent, I'll go ahead and summarize what is going on from my point of view (and that is Grace irl POV, all of this will be OOC).

Without going way back into the history of all this, the current situation is that we have over 100 clones in Ireland, all working for the benefit of Springtime. They fill her armies, vote for her council list to give her a huge majority, do her supply runs and carry her grants. And yet, they are never seen or heard from by anyone.

Most of you have been around the game long enough to know that the following things would be strange by themselves, and taken together are damn suspicious:

1. 3 large armies of people, all working for Spring - no one ever forgets to follow (EVER), none of them are ever seen in taverns, almost none of them post in forums and those that do post very rarely. To have a town with 3 armies in it and empty tavs always is unheard of. All of them stay in the armies, forever, for only food - this is going on months and months now.

2. Almost all the suspect people are lvl 1, and the vast majority have no fields. Why? Because they were born elsewhere, abandoned their fields, and ran to join Spring's armies within a couple short weeks of their birth. I doubt there is anywhere else in RK that has naked newbies rushing to buy weapons and shields and showing up asking to rally to armies in hordes. Also, many of the suspect chars have a rather large amount of money on them for people that have spent months in an army only being paid food and having no fields.

3. Some of them are active enough (and I use that term loosely) to sit on Spring's council list. Over the last year, the real people that used to populate the Peace list have dropped off, all to be replaced with clones. Clones generally hold the all-important TM spot and usually sheriff as well, in order to help fund the massive armies. They also control the army sanctions and voting. If you read posts from the Peace list in council or mails from them, they all sound strikingly similar, as if written by the same person who is barely disguising their writing. They use the same words/sentences/arguments/opinions, worded the same. The way they are sometimes disguised is by faking a bad accent and claiming English is a 2nd rl language, but I'm a teacher that has taught ESL students before, and the speech patterns are nothing like that. Either way, reading several posts or mails from Peace will leave you scratching your head.

4. Once we became very suspicious, we started tracking the suspected clones on lavabo. Yes, ALL of them. What we see is that one will login, then out. Then the next logs in, then out. Then the next. All in a row. Frequently, I have seen Saamnn alternating logging in every few minutes with the clones. I haven't yet taken a watch shift when Spring is on, so I can't say anything about that specifically. Just recently, Spring said she was going to run council lists in each county. She put together a list in Munster with 12 of the known clones. Raella watched the clones, that had been sitting dead in Cashel, all login, resurrect, and then logout in a row. When they were done, the list was confirmed. The admins looked over the info Rae sent and eradicated 7 clones for clear cloning behavior.

I have to be honest, when I first heard people accusing Spring of cloning, I wasn't so sure. Then as the clone list grew and grew, I thought ok, she has some, but surely not as many as people are saying. It's hard to wrap your head around a small group of maybe 3 people running over 100 clones to rig a stupid game. But huge silent armies, dead silent towns with 150+ in them, huge silent majorities returning the same people to council and TH power again and again, the odd login behavior, the eerily similarly worded posts....it all adds up.

Spring and Saamnn have offered several explanations. Last year, Spring told the story of the ERA, saying she was at an rl party, told some of her rl friends about horrible evil Munster attacking her in this game, and they were all so horrified that they rushed to sign up and apparently do whatever she says without getting more involved, ever, since then. Later, when some of them were jailed by the admins over a weekend for suspicious behavior, she told me directly "who knows? we all play games and don't really know who is on the other end." Then later in the forums, a couple months ago, she told the story that they were all people that used to play other games together, and now she got them to come play here (100+ of them? and none ever wanted to be more involved than a few minutes a day or disagree with her ever?). A few weeks later, Saamnn offered the explanation that these were "coworkers" irl that they all got to join (again, 100+ of them? etc?).

Finally, I'd point to Spring and Saamnn's behavior regarding the clone accusations. Anyone else I know in RK would, when faced with all this evidence and suspicion, investigate themselves and take a really hard look at what is happening.They would cooperate with the others wondering what is going on, because they are gamers, not cheaters. Instead, Spring and Saamnn have offered multiple conflicting and nonsensical explanations and blocked any further investigation whenever they can, trying desperately to control access and information while still benefiting from all these clones. I know that, for myself, when someone told me a person on our council list had made clones, I ran off immediately to talk to the person, find out what was up, yelled a bit, confirmed that all the clones were eradicated (he said he did it to figure out how Spring did and then let them die). There was nothing to report anymore and it was too late to change the list, but when his name came up again later for the list, I refused to allow it. I also filled a few related people in on what had happened. I was shook up, and I imagine that the vast majority of people in RK I know would react the same. Spring and Saamnn's reactions are nothing like this, and the evidence for clones for them is much more significant.

Sorry this is extra long, but I know a lot of you are unfamiliar with exactly what has been happening. I'd much rather think that no one would do this, but there's just no other explanation anymore.
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LadyJazzy
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:53 am

Excellent summation.

For the rest of you that are not quite sure what the cheating is really affecting... it is the birthrate!

The game is set that LVL0s are born where the most LVL1s are on a given day. Now 18months ago no1 really new this, but as Springs armies grew all the other irish cities began to get less newborns. Eventually this has lead to the closing of the irish towns. This is why CC in Munster closed.

Also Nursejosie (used to be an irl friend of springs) no appears to be a clone
was mayor of AC... left town, joined army, starved AC, no axes, no food, debt of 3500p... Jazzy and OBie and few friends traveled and get stuck there. We helped all the forum actives and set up a mayoral debate. Next thing that happens Nursejosie never posts and wins by a landslide.

...

The writing is hilarious... short staccato bursts... was the best description I had heard.

...

I do know that at various time irl people had positions from time to time... greatsunset I think and a few more. I used to be good online friends with Spring and was aware of how/where she had gained irl ppl to join rk.

...

Rumor has it Choup wants england/ireland/scotland gone so that may be another hinderance to MOST data being swept aside, with only the most blatant being acted upon.

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Grace
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:04 am

Plus, all those newborns are being born into dead towns - towns that look like they have large populations around 150 or more, but have zero forum or tavern activity. You can predict what happens to those newborns; they quit the game, and all RK loses out for it. Some accounts that used to be held by real people indeed seem to have been turned over to be managed as clones. Wild_one is another example of that.

Also, Choup can bite me.
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Beth
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:07 am

For those who may be sceptical about the effect of this clone activity on birthrates, an example. Corcaigh rarely gets newborns, perhaps one or two each week. Spring turned up with her armies which are filled with lvl 1s and on that day there were over twenty new borns in Corcaigh.
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Alexandrelejuste
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:32 am

[But admins pf RK?
They do nothing? Shocked
Why they don't trace their computer addresse to eradicate all? :O
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Grace
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:08 am

Because they are using proxy servers to make it look like many computers instead of one.

Also, might I add that I am very very close to walking away from RK at this very moment. Tonight I have had one more run in with players that cannot respect RL stuff over game stuff than I may be able to take.
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anto_capone
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:49 am

Grace wrote:
Because they are using proxy servers to make it look like many computers instead of one.

Also, might I add that I am very very close to walking away from RK at this very moment. Tonight I have had one more run in with players that cannot respect RL stuff over game stuff than I may be able to take.

what happened, if i can ask? who do i have to smack down!? Smile

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Grace
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:03 am

I'll send you a PM. I am so angry I'm shaking, if that gives you an indication.
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Angeljoy25
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:35 am

I've heard little bits and pieces of the clone story in Ireland, it's nice to have a better understanding. Really people are pathetic, to go to that length in a game. How can you even have fun with it? Neutral

I wish you luck and do hope you'll keep us updated.
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Aveline
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:47 am

Kill Ireland with fire.

Kidding, this is a horrible situation, and ruins the game for everyone. I hope Choup doesn't close England/Ireland/Scotland. =/
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LadyJazzy
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:47 am

There are some armies sitting next to Laig towns and Paddy is recruiting in Lizzy. Most of us assume we are going to die as we throw ourselves at Springs army, but when the child-stealers are out of the army 2 things happen... they actually need to work to get pay/food and tracking becomes easier. So most of think it is worth it.

The election looms in just a few days... maybe 3 or so. IRL is pushing hard with Grace/Paddy/Hannah/Daub/Amerys and others trying to juggle RL/IG Timing/Election stuff. Hopefully folks can ride some of this out.

What many of us consider nothing more than a "news update" of these timing struggles, seemed to get taken OOC by quite a few people. Truly, IRL rules, allow the IG comments from fellow players, deal with things as they come.

@Grace: I sure hope you can take a breath, finish you RL stuff and continue your great work.

Reminder for all, do your best to speak of actions by others and not get personal. Don't assume folks hating what you do in game has any bearing IRL on how they feel about the player behind the character.

Even if we assume that Spring/Saammn/PEACE ARE all actually a large (80 or so) group of friends that vote and act in lock-step, then they may find all of this fun, but as has been shown this is hurting Ireland directly, causing a lot of effort to be wasted at a time when... at least verbally... the isle is trying to come together.

@Anto: IMHO you MAY want/need to get involved only if to free up the "good" folks time, and reset the birthrates for a few months.





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Toasti Jen
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:58 pm

I don't understand why they don't just eradicate Spring. People have been eradicated for far less, and the evidence against her is overwhelming.

Oh...I know why. That would be logical. Sorry, I forgot what game I was talking about for a second.

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Bekah
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:21 pm

Choup has been given too much to do. She has to deal with the FAQ from RK, SK, NK, Megagong and this new Tribalistan. IMHO, LJS, Levan and JDW have royally cocked up in creating clones of RK without working on making RK work properly. Luckily for us, Choup has no say on whether or not the English-speaking RK is closed or not.

As for clones, I could create 100 + clones and each one can have a separate IP address - not hard to do, but seriously, the day I will go to that much trouble to cheat on a game is the day I will go for a long walk off a short pier. I don't think that I put that much effort into my work lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:40 pm

anto_capone wrote:
Grace wrote:
Because they are using proxy servers to make it look like many computers instead of one.

Also, might I add that I am very very close to walking away from RK at this very moment. Tonight I have had one more run in with players that cannot respect RL stuff over game stuff than I may be able to take.

what happened, if i can ask? who do i have to smack down!? Smile

Grace, I think I have a solution to that problem, and you may just love me forever... Anto, I'll talk to you about it to as well...you'll see

*hugs Grace tight*
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:00 pm

Bekah wrote:

As for clones, I could create 100 + clones and each one can have a separate IP address - not hard to do, but seriously, the day I will go to that much trouble to cheat on a game is the day I will go for a long walk off a short pier. I don't think that I put that much effort into my work lol!


Exactly!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:55 pm

[quote="Bekah"As for clones, I could create 100 + clones and each one can have a separate IP address - not hard to do, but seriously, the day I will go to that much trouble to cheat on a game is the day I will go for a long walk off a short pier. I don't think that I put that much effort into my work lol![/quote]


This sums it up alien
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:47 pm

Us "ladies"(women) here seem to have self-worth and several versions of lives both ig and irl. Sadly, others don't!
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:43 am

Spring's party got only 5 seats on council. They did manage to jail a person each on the opposing lists, though, making it a tie vote for duke for a couple rounds. Fingers crossed everyone remembers to both vote and take screenshots of their votes until War gets out of jail.

Once a non-Peace duke is in, sanctions from Spring's armies will be yanked, and I would assume Munster will pounce.
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:31 pm

Pretty sure they're planning on it hubby got bitched at in a temper tantrum because he said he wouldn't be joining THE LARGEST ARMY EVER (so heard a valley girl voice when he told me too) Ireland has ever seen. Was great fun seeing him get flirted with and fawned over till he said no... nice to see power hungry people all stay about the same regardless of what side of the rk ocean they're on
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:07 pm

Laughing It's so not the largest army ever, either. Not even in Ireland. I'm still getting bitched out because I refused to throw 10 people at 90+stationary bonus.
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:26 am

Grace wrote:
Laughing It's so not the largest army ever, either. Not even in Ireland. I'm still getting bitched out because I refused to throw 10 people at 90+stationary bonus.

wow.. you are amazing.. Smile and anto apparently its me that needs smacked down... *walks away from the thread*
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:16 pm

I've split off the flames and following comments and moved them to the Flames forum until Anto wakes up and decides what he wants done with it. I've no idea who "Stitcher" is and think it's pretty bold to make your first post an insult. Sure, we gibe at each other. But at least if I pick on Bella she knows I'm kidding and I know I deserve whatever I get back Laughing .

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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:02 am

I'm drunk atm so excuse me, if I dont understand all the details Smile

Whats the problem, if that Spring~whatever raises the clones in one county, why its such big problem ? That county will be overlooked by admins when sending newborns there, so other counties will get them. Odd one-two actives can be persuaded to move, or maybe they can find clone-county fun.

Isolate them, and leave them be.

Or I'm wrong ? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Of Child-Stealers, Clones and WitchCraft   Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:23 am

WhiteSnow wrote:
I'm drunk atm so excuse me, if I dont understand all the details Smile

Whats the problem, if that Spring~whatever raises the clones in one county, why its such big problem ? That county will be overlooked by admins when sending newborns there, so other counties will get them. Odd one-two actives can be persuaded to move, or maybe they can find clone-county fun.

Isolate them, and leave them be.

Or I'm wrong ? Razz

Nods to whitesnow.

Is not so simple as ignoring them. the numbers provided by players of rk show that the amount of level ones dictate the rate of birth in our towns. I can say... only in my own small experience, as a mayor for only a few days, i noticed a drop by half when i sent out the level ones to do other jobs outside of BLR. nothing huge.. 4 to 2

When armies moved into munster towns full of level ones sat a day the birth rates skyrockted. their are numbers available that show the rate of low level fieldless peeps from laig (your not able to access your fields by most proxy servers)

there are variables here, I dont deny that.. but the ... fact here is simple...

Ireland will die if this issue is not tended to. I get two newborns per day... 2.. two 2.. ? 2?

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