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 Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?

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Fitz_
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PostSubject: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:23 pm

So Brennos says that the Church of Scotland is able to break away from the England/Rome/French/etc. Church. I see this as being a realistic possibility, and one step in the process of uniting Scotland.

Thoughts?

Quote :
Hello,

Sure, why not. If you are able to be independant, if your bishops decide it, we can talk about it.

Regards

Brennos

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User question:
Hello,

I am wondering, is it possible for Scotland to leave the Church of Rome? The same thing did happen in real life with England, and in modern times there does exist the Church of England.

If the people of Scotland did want this, and the in-game King of Scotland did write to you informing you of this, would you allow it?

This would mean that the Scotland Religious Council would not be decided by people in other Countries, but instead by our own people. The King could inform you of the leader of the Church of Scotland, who would then decide religious offices in the future.

If the in-game King of Scotland did agree, with the support of the Scottish people, would you allow this?

And yes I am serious about uniting Scotland. We know well that a National Assembly and garbage like that does not work, but we also know that together we are far more powerful than on our own. We can never be ruled by a King, but if the King realizes this and embraces it, he would realize that we can be lead by a King. A Leader would be helpful, not a ruler. Our Counties can never be ruled by some national body, but we can have bonds to work together under the common banner of Scotland.
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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:24 pm

Only thing is, I don't see Rothar wanting to help you guys with that. But you could make plans for when he's gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:30 pm

I have contacted Rothar and Alanna and directed them to this conversation. I am hopeful they may support a change to the, "Scottish Aristotelian Church", on the grounds that the people of Scotland, "have become disheartened with the hierarchy of the URAC". The move to the SAC would signify that we remained Aristotelians, which I am hoping will be what Alanna would be looking for.

The positives would be, I think, an increase in members of the Church, because I think more people in Scotland would be willing to be baptised. The Dukes and King could be incorporated into the hierarchy somehow, and the spiritual leader would be the Archbishop of Glasgow. This would also mean that the hierarchy of the Scottish Aristotelian Church would alone have the authority to decide who can be baptised, married, excommunicated etc. Meaning people like Alanna would decide, instead of people from outside Scotland.
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Elois
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:45 pm

Good luck. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:37 am

If Glasgow wants to do what they wish, they can do so. However, as long as I have been working with the Church, Galloway has been strong in the Aristolean Faith. We have all our Churches filled, and to take them out would be extremely unfair to them.

While in Glasgow, I have made 3 more ordinations for priests in Galloway, and they tell me that Galloway is strong in the Faith. So why should it change if this is what they wish?



I do not see taking them out of this faith Uniting Scotland. Indeed I see it as people further disliking Glasgow because of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:47 am

Alanna, I encourage you to read what I wrote. I cannot help but feel that you assumed what this was about and then posted rashly.

Alanna_kyles wrote:
If Glasgow wants to do what they wish, they can do so. However, as long as I have been working with the Church, Galloway has been strong in the Aristolean Faith. We have all our Churches filled, and to take them out would be extremely unfair to them.

While in Glasgow, I have made 3 more ordinations for priests in Galloway, and they tell me that Galloway is strong in the Faith. So why should it change if this is what they wish?



I do not see taking them out of this faith Uniting Scotland. Indeed I see it as people further disliking Glasgow because of this.

You do realize who I am?
Fitz Dunbar. Galloway. We have spoken many times. Keep in mind this is OOC as well.

This is not about Glasgow. This is not a Glasgow forum, or even a solely Scottish forum for that matter. Nor is this about leaving the Aristotelian faith, because we would not be doing that.

If SCOTLAND (All of Scotland) leaves the URAC, we can remain Aristotelian, but have the power to control our own Church, without the people from England, Ireland, Rome or any other Country on this planet, having any say in how we do things. Our Priests will remain in office, you will remain in office (with even more power) and the people of Scotland alone will rule their Church.

This would even give you a lot more power over the Church in Scotland, so please do not think it an attack on yourself.
As far as uniting Scotland goes. Giving the faithful of Scotland control over their Church, meaning that the people of England etc. will have no say in what we, you, do in Scotland. That will be a step towards unity, without a doubt.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:00 am

Sighhhhhhhhh, I know who you are Fitz. I also did not take this as an attack on me. Honestly. The only reason I had mentioned Glasgow, was because they had recently brought the subject up, and speaking privately with some people on the subject had learned they wouldn't see it as fair.


However, moving on, what do you honesttly want.

You talk about leaving URAC, to remain Aristolean, but control our own Church without any other Kingdoms involved. How would you see or want to see this as happening?


May I invite URAC members from these other Kingdoms to participate in this?

How do you see leaving other Kingdoms as a step towards unity?
How would this be a step for unity towards Scotland?
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:02 am

Fair enough. I am simply very surprised. The times we have spoken have almost all been OOC and we have always got along. But here you seem aggressive. But, so be it, at least I am no longer confused about that.

Quote :
You talk about leaving URAC, to remain Aristolean, but control our own Church without any other Kingdoms involved. How would you see or want to see this as happening?

Well the question is do we want to leave Rome or just the Scottish/Irish/English Branch? Leaving that alone is easy. France has their own Church Branch of Rome, yet we are bound to be with the English and Irish? That's not an insult, although I don't mind insulting the English. I simply mean, why cannot we have our own Church Branch, like France do? Let's do it.

Baptised before? Nothing changes. The process of baptism is determined by Rome. The dogma, cannon law, it all remains the same. Only difference is that the Council controlling the Church, whatever they're called, is all Scottish people.

Leave Rome? Simple, but the questions is do we want to. Honestly, I'm all for it. King would be head of the Church. They would appoint the Archbishop of Glasgow (the spiritual leader of the Church) as well as the Bishops of Glasgow and Galloway (relations, church-county). The Archbishop appoints Priests and the Priests appoint Deacons. The Council controlling our religious laws could be the Synod, or any other name that fits, and would be the Diocesan Council basically, just renamed. I.E. they'd be the Archbishop and the Bishops, who'd do their voting etc. amongst themselves. If you were baptised into into the URAC by a Scottish Priest you could remain in the URAC or join the Scottish Church. No complications here because the URAC baptises people as joining the Aristotelian Friendship, which we are claiming to remain a part of.

Quote :
May I invite URAC members from these other Kingdoms to participate in this?

I don't see why not.

Quote :
How do you see leaving other Kingdoms as a step towards unity?
How would this be a step for unity towards Scotland?

It would not unite us with other Countries, but with ourselves. People are always moaning that the Church takes orders from England. No matter how little the truth is in this, the fact remains that if we became indy, these claims would stop. On top of that, Glasgow and Galloway would be united under a single Scottish Church. NNGO members, for example, cannot be baptised, I think, or some such, because URAC denies it. They deny it because the English members deny it. Well, this way, Scottish would decide on their own. Just an example.


Last edited by Fitz_ on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:15 pm

I will add Fury Members cannot either.

We are treated the same as NNGO in URAC eyes.

Let scotlands churchs should be ruled by scots, Not english wanting to throw in thier 50 sheckles worth
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:00 pm

I like status quo, if to talk about it, since none can offer me anything better Cool



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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:10 pm

I see dickshine, um, I mean Roby is trying to get Fury anathema'd so he can begin a crusade. Rolling Eyes He is trying to use Carlisle war as evidence of association of Fury with NNGO. I think all the more better time to become independent from URAC. There are always going to be people fighting alongside NNGO that wouldn't otherwise. Might as well anathema Ireland and Scotland with that mentality.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:23 am

What a prick
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:33 am

Why, I do find it all to be quite hilarious Razz Always nice to find new fans Cool

He wants to get some "sanctions" on us that we dont care about. Also is doing it, while he hardly even knows who is in Fury. For the reason, that he wants to come here and to fight on fretalian side, perhaps hoping that some other english will like his plan and will join him. Thinking that in England (even) their silly church has more power than their politicians.



Absolute fail.



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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:44 pm

You have so much more finesse than I. I'd much rather run his face over a cheese grater for a good hour.

I really must visit Scotland sometime soon. Smile If he wants to kill you all, then I want a chance to kill him.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:45 am

Those from urace always do talk a lot. Brings zero results though Smile

Seriously, if he so wanted to fight in fretalian army, where he has been all the time then ? Frets are retreating to England as we do speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:52 am

About Urace loudmouths again:

Alanna_kyles wrote:
Pelenor --in midst of being ordinated for Wigtown Parish
Flaith --being ordinated for Whithorn Parish ??


All Clergy will be placed in their appropriate offices upon my return to Galloway
___________________________

Sepia --replacing Swampi in Ardencaple
Thomashoog --needs replacing in Glasgow City
Ventular --needs replacing in Stirling

Basically it means that all Glasgow churches stopped working since Sepia which is "replacing" Swampi is inactive about one month.

Two of Galloways arent too working too.

Thats what I did mean with "status quo" Cool


Also we have very nice example of wishful thinking here:

Quote :
upon my return to Galloway

Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:09 pm

I am trying to talk with Alanna about simply leaving the URAC of England, Scotland and Ireland, and being the URAC of Scotland. France and other Countries have their own Church, so why cannot we? They are at the command of Rome, but they still are their own church. There is no reason we must be stuck with England and Ireland (no offence to Ireland, of course). I know this is not what some want, but it is certainly progress. We would be leaving England and have no more to do with them than any other Country.

That said, Alanna keeps going, "Glasgow this! Glasgow that!". She doesn't seem to understand what this is even about.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:46 pm

They're too polarized. They can't see anyone on an individual level or understand individual wants. Everything is Fury, Fury, Fury is bad, bad, bad. Razz

But maybe Ireland should be a part of this. I wont pretend to know the pulse of Ireland but Chonnacht has been greatly ignored by URAC. Been maybe 2 years now that Gort can't get a priest.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:13 am

I think it would be good if we both did it. Love and all for Ireland, but it just makes more sense to me that they should have their own and we should have our own.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:36 pm

Aye, I agree entirely. I don't see why England should decide such things in another country.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:43 pm

Quotes by me from other times and other places . . .

Quote :
Yeah I read what Fitz posted over on RealRK, I think this would be a good idea though and would give some meaning to being church way in Scotland. Right now no one wants to because we're tied to England and they can just out-vote us on all URAC crap

Quote :
- I would support a Scottish branch of the church because that would be tied into the IG mechanics. Just like the French have their own Church it wouldn't be hard for Brennos to give that to us and the IG offices are already there.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:57 am

My last letter to Alanna wrote:
I bring forward the point of inactivity because I cannot help but feel that perhaps you are not willing to consider leaving England and Ireland, because you do not want to spend the time involved to do this. Yes, you have always been inactive, when serving the Church and the Embassies. People leave you be and don't say anything because you're not their enemy and frankly these offices have little meaning. And if you simply do not want to leave Ireland and England, why on Earth not? I am certain that the Irish will support having their own Church branch as well. Perhaps I should take this point to their people? A minority of Irish are aware of it so far, but I am sure the rest of Ireland would love to hear. It makes far more sense for our three Countries, England, Scotland and Ireland, to manage our own Church branches. That means the Churches can deal with local issues and encourage a greater level of community involvement. You should know very well the low level of involvement that the Church has in Scotland. Look at the last update you sent to Rome. Several offices were in need of filling or in confusion over who would hold them. I've heard from others already that they would consider being involved with the Church of Scotland if we weren't tied to England.

I can take this to a much bigger level. I am not bound to only message you and hold a couple discussions. I can spread the word further. I am being nice, believe it or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Scottish Church - One step closer to unity?   Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:13 am

Mine views are rather simple: there is a church, there is a lvl3 church way player - let them in and lets be done with it. What religion they will spread there - doesnt matter. That they all should belong to one group is absolutely unneccessary too: it takes away the diversity and in turn makes it all rather boring and stagnating. Besides an average citizen simply wants mass to be done and hardly cares what cult performs that.
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