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 New Policy Regarding Inactives

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anto_capone
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PostSubject: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:44 pm

Hi all,

We've been having some trouble lately, namely, the guild is losing more renown than it is gaining. This is because the more people in our guild that log in and do not actually play, the more the others have to work to make up for it.

By all means, we enjoy having everyone in the guild, but here are some changes we are making:

If you cannot play, then simply do not log in. Nothing bad will happen to you or the guild if you don't log in for months. If you log in once every 30 days, just to keep your account active in the guild, but do not actually play: we will be forced to boot you from the guild.

If you are taking an extended break, just don't log in until you can play again.

Here is the breakdown:

If you log in and do not play, for the next 30 days the guild loses almost 1000 renown per day on your account. The rest of us have to make up for it.
If you log in and play, you can easily get 1000 renown per day by simply playing the game. This helps our guild grow.
If you do not log in for 30 days, after the 30 day mark our guild stops losing renown on your account.


I am going to be setting up a guild chat channel in the game that all of us can join. This way, those of us that just like to log in and chat can do so, without hurting the guild.

We want you to join our guild and play DDO with us, this helps our guild and it is fun to run with all of you! We just cannot keep making up for people who are not actually playing the game. We don't care if you play once a week even, we just need you all to understand that it can be frustrating to see the entire guild suffer because of people going inactive and then immediately reactivating.


Any questions, can post here or PM me. My mailbox is always open. If you need a break, thats fine, you don't have to ask! Just don't log in for 5 mins once a month, or we'll have to boot you for hurting our guild.

Thanks!

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Likaios
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:22 am

Honestly, I'm such a ridiculously casual player I don't think I ever earn my keep on renown even when I'm playing semi-regularly at this point in the guild's growth. If it's better for the guild for me to scoot my toons on out, I'm cool with that. Y'all area awesome but at this level, I cost more renown than I bring in, and I'm not real comfortable with it when I know how hard the core players work to level up the guild. Even when I have more time this summer, I would be pretty surprised if I played enough to earn 1k daily.
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Beth
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:50 am

No. Uh-uh. Stay.

The intention here isn't to make players think they must hit a renown quota daily. Its to let those who log on just to have a look around and then tootle off again for another few weeks know that this hurts the guild. That isn't you. When you knew you couldn't play, you didn't log on. I noticed. Now you can play. May be not every day, and may be not for hours, but I see you there, and that is cool. I know you're working on Cudddlez and that at lower levels less renown is gained, but one day Cudddlez will be an awesome lvl 20 and picking up those legendary victories.

So stay and continue to do what you've been doing. alien
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:25 am

Can boot Pirokiller out of the guild, idk, I doubt I will be playing much.
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:39 am

Well, the LAST thing we want to do is boot anyone, or have anyone feel bad and want to leave the guild. We have plenty of guild members who have not logged in over a year! This does not hurt our guild at all.

If someone does not log in for 30 days, we stop losing renown because of them.

I think, first and foremost, we need to get everyone informed and educated how it works. It seems to me there are quite a few members who think that logging in for 5 mins every 30 days helps our guild, which is opposite of reality.

So, we are going to do a few things:

1: First, we are going to make a separate chat channel. This channel will be for all our guild members and all our friends in DDO. Invite anyone you like, just type /joinchannel NNGO [Zarkon] to join. Soon, I will be invited 'allies' and various friends I have met in DDO who are not in our guild to this chat channel as well.

2: Second, I am going to be sending some standardized mails to all our current active members, and any those that re-activate from now on to explain how the renown system works. We've already have had a few people feeling guilty, when there is no reason to. No one is angry or upset, we just want to work something out for everyone.

3: Finally, we're going to organize some more regular guild events, because this helps rake in the renown and off-set much of our losses.


We don't have a quota for anyone, don't feel obligated to get renown even. But from now on we are going to keep a closer eye on things. As easy going a guild as we are, I feel I have failed somewhat and let some people fall in between the cracks. We don't have any concrete policies or rules on activity, so we are going to make some.

All new players to DDO: none of this applies to any of you, but it is helpful to learn how renown works. Please take a moment to understand how renown works:

How Renown Works:

Guild Renown is how a guild gains levels, and unlocks rewards for the entire guild to enjoy. The higher the guild level, the more renown is needed to reach the next level; and the more renown that is lost per day, per account.

Renown Decay happens daily. The amount of Renown Decay lost each day is based on the amount of ACTIVE ACCOUNTS. An account is considered active if it has logged in the past 30 days. If an account does not log in for 30 days, it stops losing renown for the guild.

***

We have some core players, we have some new players, and we have some players that simply stop by to socialize. We'd like to accommodate them all, but the ones that are only there to socialize, without actually playing, hurt our guild renown. This makes the rest of us have to get renown for not only ourselves but for these other people too.

So, we have a few options. If you come to DDO, not to actually play the game but to just hang out; we've made a chat channel for everyone that we'd like you to join. You can log in anytime you want and chat with us on this channel, and you don't have to be in the guild to do so. This means if you log in once a month, no harm done.

If you are just trying DDO out, we'd like you to stay with the guild until you've decided yay or nay. By all means, if you like to play DDO, please stay in the guild!

If you are taking an extended break, please don't log in every 30 days. Simply log in when you can play again, and play. That's all there is to it. Smile

And if you aren't sure yet, either way, just let me know. If you want to give DDO a try, for example, but kinda got busy with other things and notice you haven't logged in for a month: just say 'hey anto, I'm still not sure if DDO is the game for me. I got busy with other things but I am still interested in DDO. Don't taze me bro!' Smile

***

I think there are just some misunderstandings on how it all works. I don't think anyone is trying to make it harder on others, I think we all just need to get on the same page. We are all happy to have everyone in our now large guild, and you are all welcome to stay. Just help us accommodate you better, and in turn this will help the entire guild.

Hardcore players (those that play just about every day): thanks for keeping our guild afloat. I know it must be frustrating to see our guild not gaining anything lately. We'll get this fixed soon!

Casual players (those that play once a week, those that play one week out of every couple months): you are all welcome to stay, please do not feel guilty or think any of this is because of you. We are thankful to have you all!

Socialites (those that log in just to talk, but do not play): we'd like you to consider simply using our new chat channel to hang out with us, when you feel like logging in. This way you can log in whenever you want, as little or as much as you need, just to talk or hang out. But we'd also like to remove you from the guild. If you ever change your mind and decide to actually play DDO, we can easily invite you back to the guild, no questions asked.

Those not interested in DDO at all anymore: if you are not going to play DDO anymore, let me know so we can remove you from the guild. If you aren't 100% sure though, if you think maybe someday down the road you might give it (another) try, then no worries; simply stay in the guild. We suffer no penalty if you do not log in for a year or whatever. Just please, do not log in just for the sake of logging in.
Remember, once you don't log in for 30 days, its the same as if we booted you from the guild anyway. Wink



Thanks for bearing with me through this post/thread. If you have ANY questions or suggestions, please post here or send me a mail.

Have fun! Smile

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Zogdor
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:30 am

Well I just got us to 70, contact me in game if you want to know how I did it Smile
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Likaios
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:57 am

I actually make a point of running Cudddlez through quests that are likely to net renown, so I'm not sure she does so badly. ^^ Anything at level or within a level for her is good, and anything that's either a super fast run or with lots of chests tends to work well. So at first that meant lots of Durk (fast, potential for many chests), later lots of Irestone and Depths, and lately with her at level 6 I'm running a lot of House K. Not so many chests in that, but those quests are all fast runs. A lot of these quests are not guaranteed a renown drop as a reward but if you think about the time it takes to run one of the "very long" quests vs. one of my preferred.... well, I'm pretty sure I can get more renown drops out of my shorties. Most of what she gets is Heroic Deeds, of course, but there's a decent smattering of Legendary Victories and Tales of Valor as well.

I'd love to know how Zog pulled 20k-ish renown since I logged off though. ^^ I'll have to track him down and pester him for an answer.
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:37 am

Lost about 20K at about 3PM my time, so we are back down to 69 dude! Shame I had the chatbox with the girl on the ship open and I wasn't expecting to go all the way to 70, or else I would have got a screenshot. At least Bangithard and I got to run as a level 70 guild for about 30 mins or so Very Happy
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Toasti Jen
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:01 pm

As a "Casual Player", I will not feel guilty (I think I must have been Catholic in a past life or something!).
One side note: when I was 'Inactive' (not signing in ever for 18 months...if I am too busy to play, I can't be arsed to sign in just for the hell of it and sign out), I did not look in this thread (All Things DDO). So, I do wonder if the people who are signing in once a month just to keep active but not actually play, I wonder if they even look in this thread. My point being- will they get this message/read the post? I just wonder if the people who need to read this won't because they are mostly inactive.

Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:18 pm

Very good point, Toasti Jen.

Maybe more reason to just cull the guild memberlist and therefore prevent inactive people from unknowingly logging in and increasing the renown burden.

And of course if they want to become active again, all they need to do is ask.

If you think the hit to renown by removing members is bad now, wait 15 levels (when we're at level 84 and wanting to get our new ship).

Just saying... Very Happy

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Zogdor
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Well with this many inactives and such high decay, it's very unlikely that we'll get much past level 75!
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:10 pm

Zogdor wrote:
Well with this many inactives and such high decay, it's very unlikely that we'll get much past level 75!

Inactives do not increase decay. In fact if we booted all our inactives right now we'd wind up dropping to level 68 or even 67 because our decay for 2 weeks will be around 60K per day and impossible to keep up with. Booting people out makes them active for 2 weeks, and it zaps the majority of renown they ever gained on their toons.

The inactives are not a problem. They can log in every 6 months and we can deal with it like we've dealt with it before. However, some of our inactives are not going to play anymore and should be booted. I will boot them after we have cleared a safe threshold at level 70. I don't want to do it now and be stuck for 2 months at 69.

But,

Its the people who, specifically and literally, log in and do not play that are making more of a burden. I won't name names, but I will be contacting everyone anyway and will address these people in private. Its not like its a witch hunt or anything. I know of a few people who just simply misunderstand how it all works.

All the same, but if someone is going to be inactive for over a month it would be good to know. We can then take a look at their total renown gained for the guild, and decide with them if it would be better to leave them in the guild, or boot them until they are active again.

If someone has say, contributed only 1000 renown total on all their toons, we could potentially do something like this:

1: they log in, tell me they are going long term inactive. I make note of all their toons names.
2: the player and I agree that once they log off, I will boot them from the guild. this way, we will lose all the 1k renown they gained (not a lot), but the guild will only take decay on them for 2 weeks instead of a month.
3: when they return, we simply invite them back.

Now if someone has gained over 100k renown on all their toons, it gets more tricky. Out of that 100k, by booting them we will immediately lose 25000 renown, and for the next 2 weeks we will decay an extra 15000 or so. It all depends on the player, so we'll work it out on a case by case basis.

We also have to consider that our guild style, which has many of us 'doing our own thing' does not gain us the most renown. There are very good reasons to run with guild mates. Not only for loot, but every time you see that tick of renown gain for simply killing a monster, everyone in your party gets it too. So also please consider that by 'flying solo', you are gaining 1/6 or 1/12 the amount of renown that would be gained than by running with full guild parties. Wink

I'll be online tonight, with an eye to grinding some renown out. Maybe we'll do something as a guild, idk how tired I will be after 7 hours of driving.


I'll keep you all updated as I contact everyone in our guild. Some people I will contact through other means, RK mails, emails, this forum mails, whatever it takes.

I know its frustrating, but let's not point fingers or blame anyone. Let's just keep having fun, and let me deal with this before it becomes much more of an issue as our decay grows with each level. So we lose 20k daily now, which is pretty manageable, but by level 80 we will lose near 40k per day renown if we keep the same amount of active people.

So we'll do a bit of everything. We'll organize some more regular guild nights, we'll inform everyone how renown vs. inactivity works, and we'll boot some people who are not playing as well. My worst fear is that we boot too many people, or boot indiscriminately, and this leads to hurt feelings from people who would otherwise contribute to our guild and be fun to play DDO with. But I also understand that some people simply won't be coming back, or won't be active for an extended period; and on a case by case basis we will deal with these people which might ultimately lead to me booting them.


Hang tight folks,

ac

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:22 pm

wilco boss, had no idea this happened
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Actually, instead of booting, it would be best if the people who are asked would "leave the guild on good terms." Booting automatically loses 25%, leaving on good terms only gives a 10% hit. So say it's someone with around 100k renown on all their toons, booting would lose the 25k and the 15k decay, while them agreeing to leave would only be 10k loss and 15k decay. It would make a difference.
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:26 pm

Yes, but sometimes we will have no choice. Of course we'd prefer amicable terms, but some people won't be able to log in to leave etc.


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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:41 pm

Well, if anything, we should now be conscious about who we invite to the guild, especially since the renown requirements are so large.

Maybe give them a one month trial basis or something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:59 pm

I invited some of the guys on vent to join the channel and I mentioned in guild chat earlier, so some people might have added it already.
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:53 am

feel free to boot me, with khyber being my backup server i'll never contribute 1000k/day

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:05 pm

nah, if you play once a week, or one week out the month is good enough for us.

but once a month, not enough Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:49 pm

he hasn't played in a few weeks on khyber, me thinks it might be better if he just grouped with us whenever he does get on. That way he wouldn't feel the pressure to get on that one while wanting new stuff from the expansion on his main server. You'd still be welcome on the forum and on the guild channel that we made for easy grouping Smile
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:48 pm

I doubt any of us would ever get 1000K per day Surprised
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:24 pm

I will be pulling one of my chars out of the guild in the next few days... what is a good amount of time to wait before pulling the second?

I do not want to do both at once and hit the guild with a big penalty... unless that is how you wish it.

Please take care of Aly, she is still kind of new to these types of games and will need help and advice. She is funny, witty and sometimes goofy... but she is an adorable goofy.

I wish you all the best and thanks for having me for the time I was here.
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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:33 pm

Did someone piss you off Thor?

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:37 pm

No need to pull anyone out of the guild Thor...

You not going to be able to play for awhile or something? If so, is fine, just leave everything as it is and come back when you are ready is all. Smile


Hope all is well man

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PostSubject: Re: New Policy Regarding Inactives   Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm

I made a promise and will not discuss my reasons for leaving... I just need to know what is a reasonable time to wait between characters to pull them.

Thank you
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